Episode 5

full
Published on:

6th Dec 2023

Brand New Inconsistency

As the holiday season is in full swing, the guys talk about the best and, gulp, worst holiday gifts they ever received. John goes all-in on retail, featuring a new consistent inconsistency with Barnes & Noble stores as his Snap Decision. He also details many tricks stores use to drive spending as well as sensory tactics that have surprising results. Brian brings back the Lightning Round for John and hopefully wasn’t Waiting for Tonight for his Hopelessly Unattainable Guest.

Key topics & chapter markers 

(00:23) Best Christmas gifts ever….

(01:59) …and worst Christmas gifts ever

(03:01) Barnes & Noble goes back to basics. One store design at a time

(08:05) A holiday gift: retail tricks and how to avoid them

(15:06) Sell with smell?

(21:00) Snap Decisions Lightning Round — all-judgement zone

(24:36) Hopelessly Unattainable: Bri shoots high, goes Lo

Background Content

"B&N actually expanding and letting location dictate what gets stocked" - NPR

"B&N walk away from consistency in retail design" - NY Times

"Neuromarketing Secrets that Trick us into Spending More" - MelissaHughes.rocks

"17 Clever Ways Stores Deceive You Into Spending More Money" - BestLife

"Anecdotes of Aromatic Acclaim: How Scent Marketing Can Enhance Your Bottom Line" - The Branded Agency

"Elevating the Customer Experience: The Impact of Sensory Marketing" - Mood Media

"How Our Ambient Food Aromas Increase Food Sales" - Airscent.com

"Is White Jersey Home or Away?" - Metroleague.org

Connect with Brian and John on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianmarks13/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-l-young/

Transcript
John:

Welcome back.

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I hope.

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Welcome back to Snap Decisions, the

podcast that gives you a behind the scenes

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look at the decisions that shape how

products and brands and people present

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themselves to the world, hopefully with

some very interesting conversations

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along the way with interesting folks.

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Good morning, Brian.

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Brian: Hey John.

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John: So Brian, I have a, I have

something that's going today for you.

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Brian: What do you got?

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John: Christmas gift.

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Brian: Ooh.

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Wow.

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John: Take a minute.

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We'll wait.

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Brian: I'm gonna have to

say the original Nintendo,

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John: Okay.

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Brian: you know, I, uh, we were

desperate for it, um, my siblings.

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So,

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John: What was the number one game

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Brian: well, we played a lot

of, tech mobile and, paper boy.

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And obviously the Marrier Brothers stuff,

but, Tetris, Million Hours on Tetris.

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So we didn't have an Atari, and we

didn't have any of the other early

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video game consoles, so that one

was the, the life changer for us.

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I wish I could rip the

ones out of my kids.

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John: Yeah, I was never a big

gamer, probably because my parents

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would never buy any, any sort of

gaming system, or because they

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became popular after I was, grown.

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but yeah, I'm glad I haven't had to

have that debate too much with my kids.

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Brian: Okay, well, what was your,

your best, uh, Christmas gift?

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John: My best Christmas gift ever

was, uh, a slot car racing track.

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Brian: Oh, man,

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John: I mean, didn't come anywhere

near living up to the TV commercials.

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Brian: I can never keep the

darn thing on the track,

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John: the cars fall off the track

all the time, or there's always

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one car that didn't work, so you

couldn't actually race somebody.

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but I remember just being just

so thrilled to open that up.

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Brian: and put it together.

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It was like the, the, just the

intense, excitement to just actually

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get on there and play as you're

putting the slots together or, your

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dad helping you put it together.

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John: So good.

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Brian: Yeah.

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That's a, that's a good one.

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That's a good one.

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I remember that one as well.

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John: I, I got a, worse

Christmas gift experience.

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Wasn't mine, but my

sister's and my brother.

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Yeah.

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My brother came walking

into the living room.

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We were all in presence and he

walked in with this like aquarium.

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Brian: Yeah.

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John: My sister was getting

a teddy bear hamster.

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Brian: Yeah.

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John: It had crawled and pushed

up the wooden homemade lid.

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My brother made, but couldn't get out.

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So it was dangling near

the edge of the aquarium.

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So her Christmas gift was

just basically screaming.

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Brian: Tortured.

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John: It was terrible.

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Brian: My, my, my favorite story on

A Worst Gift was, uh, after I got out

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of college, I moved back home with my

family for, uh, about six to nine months.

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And for Christmas that year,

I got luggage, which was a

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signal, signal to move out.

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John: Wow.

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Not even sort of subtle luggage,

luggage and moving boxes.

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Brian: Now, as now I sit and wait

for my mom to explain that again.

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John: Uh, all right.

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Well, listen, uh, speaking of

the holiday season, let's talk

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about some retail shopping today.

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And in particular, I know you are a

digital marketing guru, but I want to talk

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about good old fashioned brick and mortar.

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Brian: Bring it.

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John: Uh, so to warm us up, remember

back when Barnes Noble was kind of being

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demonized as the 800 pound gorilla who

killed , the small local bookseller?

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Brian: Yes.

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How could it?

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Yeah,

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John: and now we're kind of cheering

for them as the underdog against Amazon.

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It's kind of amazing.

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Brian: it, right?

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John: Yeah, I wanted to talk to

you about the fact that Barnes

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Noble as this country's biggest

brick and mortar bookseller.

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part of their back to book

selling basic strategy.

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,They are redesigning a lot

of their individual stores

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to have an individual look.

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So, no longer requiring the green and

brown and the, you know, consistency.

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but letting stores reflect kind of

where they are and the type of shopper.

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This is on the heels of, the

decision to allow individual stores.

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Sell books that appealed

to their local market.

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So it's not the same books

in every Barnes and Noble.

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Well, now the stores get to be reflective

of a local community and no longer the

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same thing, store and stay were out very

different from what we've come to expect

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from a, you know, a large retail chain.

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So, this is led by a

CEO named James Daunt.

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He founded his own bookstore chain in the

UK, and then rescued Waterstones, which

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was Britain's largest bookstore chain.

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A hedge fund , Elliott

Advisors, , bought a majority

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stake on Waterstones back in 2018.

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And the next year it bought

Barnes Noble in:

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Daunt in as the Barnes Noble CEO.

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Obviously this is really counter

to traditional retail strategy.

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So I have a snap decision for you, Brian.

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Good idea or bad idea.

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Brian: I mean, I think it's, I think

it's awesome just thinking completely

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different and saying, you know what,

everybody always tells us to do

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this and never, it's not working.

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Like what's, what's flip it on its head

and say, let's try to go back to at

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least pretending we're an independent

bookstore or come off like that.

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John: And that's his ethos,

that's his ethos, right?

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He started like that and that's,

that's what he's trying to bring to,

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uh, the Barnes and Noble chain now.

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Brian: because, if you think of

what a bookstore is supposed to

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be, it's supposed to be that.

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Like, here's the books that we recommend,

we're book readers, we're putting the

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things in front of you that we know are

good, and you know, I was doing some

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research on this when you came up with

the idea, and the one funny quote was

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just like, they had people designing

the stores who've never read a book or

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helping them organize where to put books,

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John: Yeah.

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Brian: you know?

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And so, going back to the heart of who

they are and what they're supposed to be,

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I mean, it's, it's really interesting.

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I do find it ironic, I guess, is

the word on just the, you know,

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they're the corporate bad guys and

now they're trying to become the

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independent bookshop, that's kind of.

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John: And even more ironic that a

private equity company would come in

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and, you know, usually they're all about

efficiency and streamlining, right?

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This is the opposite, right?

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Brian: I'm just fascinated by this

because it really it's goes against

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every single thing that we've ever

learned and practiced as marketers.

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John: Exactly.

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Brian: you're trying, you're always

trying to find ways to especially with

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a brand be more consistent, and have

that pay off as an experiential thing.

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And in this case, it's

more about just the.

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Yeah.

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The idea of being that

thought leader in books.

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So, I give them a lot of credit for that.

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I mean, I want to go now and check

these out to see what they're like.

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John: Road trip.

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Brian: yeah, road trip, let's

report back on some of that.

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I, I did, I did read a funny quote

from an NPR article about this.

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And it was like, somebody was saying,

you know, they're trying to capture the

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more intimate independent bookstore feel

when it's still just a Barnes and Noble.

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But.

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John: Yeah,

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Brian: But I do love the, you know,

the CEO you mentioned, he said that

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they're not having any architects

doing any design at any stage.

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There's no interior designer.

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John: I know.

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Right.

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And they're great.

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I circled that quote too.

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And as a, brand marketer at heart.

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I'm with you.

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Like, you know, my initial reaction

was just wait, we always strive for

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consistency and especially at retail.

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and I love that.

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He said, you know, the identity people

would have a complete crisis kind of

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talking about brand consultants just

because it's breaking all the rules.

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And I think that's actually

one of the reasons.

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Maybe this is starting to work.

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Because it is starting to work.

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According to some Barnes and Noble

comments in the New York Times article

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renovation they did in the Upper

West Side of New York cost about

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4 million and it's on track to pay

for itself within a couple of years.

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Brian: Yeah, I mean, they're

looking at their sales like

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doubling this year in some of

their stores, which is fascinating.

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I think post pandemic and now that we're

in this digital first world, I think it

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really provides a lot of opportunities

for, the retail experience to be much more

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experiential and to try things out this

way and do it a little bit differently.

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I mean, honestly, some of these

places, you know, what else do

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they have to lose, especially a

brand like Barnes and Noble that.

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Yeah.

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Isn't never going to be out Amazon

online, but what they do have on

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them is space and an experience.

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So how do you use that to your advantage?

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, so it'll be interesting to see where

this goes and then, you know, two

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other brands kind of fall suit and

tries things like this, or just.

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Out of the box ideas, you know?

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John: I will use your last comments

there about the idea of creating retail

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experiences is a pivot to, maybe a little

bit of a holiday gift to anybody who's

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listening, which is some retail secrets,

you know, brick and mortar retail secrets

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that are designed to make you spend more.

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I think coming into the holiday season.

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It's a good conversation.

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Brian: Yeah, I love it.

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John: All right.

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So, so we all know some of

the standard tricks, right?

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Discounts on bulk buying, a bunch of stuff

you don't need, but you buy it anyway

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because it sounds like a good price.

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, Prices that end in, 0.

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95 or 0.

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99, you know, you, you,

you see the number before

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Brian: John.

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It's cheaper.

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John: It's cheaper, it's only 16, not 16.

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99.

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The idea of displaying complimentary

items next to each other, which is called

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cross merchandising, so you go and you

see the raspberries and oh look, there's

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cream and pastry shells right next to it.

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Those weren't on your list, but now

they're in your shopping basket.

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Brian: They have a way to do

that online, too, a little bit.

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John: Yes, they're great at it online.

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Like, so again, those are sort

of the standard tricks that

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I think we all know about.

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How about some of these that

people might not realize?

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placing expensive items at eye level.

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Brian: Interesting.

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John: Yep.

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You know, trying to save some money?

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Look down!

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or end caps just because there's a big

display of a lot of stuff at the end

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of the aisle doesn't mean it's on sale.

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It just means it's there and that,

you know, someone paid a slotting

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fee for it to show up there.

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here's one I didn't realize,

but now that I think about it,

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yeah, bigger shopping carts.

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Have you noticed this?

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Brian: No,

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John: Yeah.

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So shopping carts have gotten

bigger over the past few years.

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Brian: I didn't know that.

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I thought it was going the other way.

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John: Nope.

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So if you want to save some money, grab

one of those hand baskets, although

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I've noticed my local grocery store.

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doesn't even have them anymore.

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Brian: Really?

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John: No more handbaskets.

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That was a COVID thing, I guess,

because we were touching stuff.

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I don't know why.

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but if there's those smaller carts

or handbasket, grab those, because if

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you've got the bigger cart, you're going

to see it look kind of empty and you're

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going to start to fill it with stuff.

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Brian: Interesting.

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John: essentials, the back of the store.

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There's a reason the milk and the butter

and the eggs are in the back of the store.

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Brian: Right.

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That's what I was going to go for.

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Yeah, the eggs and milk all

the way on the opposite side.

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John: Yep.

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Brian: My local supermarket during

COVID, they did a remodel and.

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The entrance changed to the other

side of the store and then they had to

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move everything in the store so that

the eggs and milk were in the back.

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John: Mm hmm.

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Brian: That's tried and

true right there, the

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John: Tried and true.

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Alright, so Brian, here's

a little pop quiz for you.

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Would you be more likely to buy a

product that has 50 percent more

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product for the same price, or

it's discounted as 33 percent off?

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Which one would you buy?

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Brian: probably the 50 percent more.

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John: Alright, well, you are like

71 percent of consumers according

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to the University of Minnesota.

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even though those two price constructs

are kind of the same in terms of a Price

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per unit, 71 percent of people would go

with buying something that was labeled

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as 50 percent more versus 33 percent off.

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Brian: Interesting.

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John: I'm no math major, so I can't

check that, but I do believe they are

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on a per unit basis about the same.

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I've got more on the grocery store

front because, um, oh, you know what?

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Here's a good tip.

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in addition to obviously just doing

math, , and looking for unit prices.

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If you use, , an app to

do your grocery shopping,

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Brian: Okay.

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John: usually, and I think I

mentioned this to her in my granola

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rant, it's easier to see the price

per ounce or pound or whatever.

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It's a lot easier to do your,

your comparison shopping if

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you're using a tool like that.

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So, related to that, Brian,

another quick question for you.

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Online grocery shopping.

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Including pickup and delivery, right?

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So you order at home, you

pick up or you get a delivery.

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Is that increasing or decreasing?

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Brian: Why do I feel like

this is a trick question?

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I mean, I would think

that it's increasing.

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John: Of course, you'd

think it's increasing

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Brian: It's not.

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John: because you're a digital guy,

and I would have thought so too.

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It's down 7%, July 2023 down

percent from July:

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COVID, I think, got us all

thinking we'll do that forever.

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But it has gone down a little bit.

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Not for me, because I think it's the

greatest thing since sliced bread.

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Grocery

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Brian: Yeah.

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Words there.

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I would say that, you know, going

back to the post COVID type of

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conversation, I feel like COVID was

the final frontier on this almost like.

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Business first and now we're like

they went into the convenience for the

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customer, you know, and they put the

customer first and and you look at stores.

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And so in our region of the universe,

uh, while while the, um, convenience

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store, it took them forever to do pick

up in your car or delivery because they

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want you to walk through the store.

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And, you know, a lot of these stores.

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Didn't really put the resources to do it

right or to actually make it convenient.

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And , the positive thing coming out

of COVID is that they finally gave

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people the option to do it that

way and made it okay to do that.

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And, I don't know if, supermarkets

are going to bury the milk and the eggs

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and the digital app, but, I feel like.

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They've accepted that convenience is

good and, um, with so many options now

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to buy and, and to do things, they know

that they need to, you know, put the

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customer first, which I didn't feel like

they were fully doing that until COVID.

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John: I think you're right.

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And, you know, thinking about my use of

the grocery store app, they are getting

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better at that cross merchandising, you

know, putting some stuff in front of

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me before I get to my milk and my eggs.

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But, That's the biggest thing for

me is, well, in addition to the

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convenience and the experience is good

now, right, it's remained relatively

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strong, is I'm not falling prey to

those tricks we just ran through.

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I'm not buying random things that

I see because I went shopping

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when I'm hungry or whatever.

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I'm not doing those impulse buys.

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I'm not susceptible to the end

cap promotion because I've got a

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list in my head or written down.

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And then I go into that and I just buy

the things on that list and the kind of

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those ancillary purchases don't happen.

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And I think that saves me way

more than, even if I was paying

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for a fee, which I'm not, but

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Brian: Yeah.

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You're, you're a showroom shopper, huh?

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John: showroom shopper and PS, uh, I

really, when I do go to the grocery store,

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I no longer remember where everything is

and it's a nightmare to do it manually.

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So I'm like, I'm happy to have

someone else do that for me.

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Brian: one, one thing I do not like

is when they're out of something

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and then they automatically

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John: Oh, yeah.

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Brian: else and it's, you know, 90

percent it's not the right thing.

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John: Yeah.

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That is that the

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Brian: I can't call, I can't quantify

that 90 percent stat I just threw out

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there, but, uh, I'm going to call it 90%.

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John: That's right.

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Look, if anyone's checking

us, uh, I urge them not to.

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Um, another, another trick is, this

is not grocery store specific,

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but, some other things that I

uncovered getting ready to talk

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about this topic is, removing dollar

signs, which happens in particular

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if you go to restaurants on menus.

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Guess what?

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Makes us spend more.

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Brian: no way.

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John: Way.

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Isn't that crazy?

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Brian: I never, I would

never thought of that.

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John: Yep.

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some retailers, fashion retailers, , have

, distorted mirrors in dressing rooms to

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make you look thinner because we tend to

buy things when they make us look good.

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Brian: Yes, yes, yes.

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I have heard that before.

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John: I had not heard that.

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I was, I probably shouldn't be so

naive, but I found that distressing.

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so anyway, you know, I think, you know,

most people know that the best marketing

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elicits some kind of emotional response.

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and we also know that the five senses

are really good at triggering emotion.

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in fact, do you know which, which

sense tends to trigger some of the most

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powerful recollections and emotions?

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Brian: I'm gonna say Smell?

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John: Yeah.

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Surprisingly smell.

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and I think we've all seen that or

smelled that when we're in a retail

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environment where smells can draw us in.

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That's obvious, right?

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You, I mean, good luck walking by

an Annie Ann or a Cinnabon, right?

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, but there's a reason the bakeries

at the front of the grocery store.

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So you walk in, you

smell, it smells amazing.

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Now you're hungry, you walk

around the store and that scent

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prompts you to spend more money.

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Even simple smells are better than

complex smells . There is a study by

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Washington State University that found

that like just a really simple smell

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versus kind of like these layered and

kind of hard to identify smells had

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people spending 20 percent more at a home

furnishings store, which is astounding to

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Brian: I saw a wild stat by this thing

called the Scent Marketing Institute.

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John: I want to talk about scent.

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Brian: Here's a stat.

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The smell of fresh baked bread

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John: Yeah.

377

:

Brian: when it's pumped

into a grocery store.

378

:

this study found that sales in

the bakery department tripled.

379

:

John: Triple.

380

:

Brian: Tripled.

381

:

John: That's a pretty good jump.

382

:

Wow.

383

:

well, the whole scent, the

scent industrial complex,

384

:

it's big business, man.

385

:

I, you know, I don't think people

realize that there are scent machines,

386

:

retail stores all over the place

pumping in scents, sometimes to

387

:

create a buying experience like you

just talked about, but sometimes

388

:

just to create a brand experience.

389

:

For instance, a lot of hotel chains have a

custom scent that's piped into the lobby.

390

:

And I think Holiday Inn

might be one of them.

391

:

You walk into a Holiday Inn and

no matter where it is, it's going

392

:

to smell the same because that

scent's being pumped into the lobby.

393

:

may be why Doubletree has warm

baked cookies when you walk in too.

394

:

I wonder if that's part of it.

395

:

Brian: Hmm.

396

:

Well, what do we think about this?

397

:

Does it need to be real?

398

:

Is it okay that, that they're

doing this artificial smell?

399

:

I mean, I do like the anti

Barnes and Noble consistency

400

:

here, but, I don't know.

401

:

John: Do you feel manipulated?

402

:

What's, what's your, what's your

403

:

Brian: it just seems kind of cheesy, but

I guess you don't even think about it

404

:

because that's why we're talking about

it because we don't even think about it.

405

:

John: Well, here's a tip.

406

:

Here's a tip to counter to if you want to

make yourself a little more immune to, you

407

:

know, these scents being thrust upon you.

408

:

Chew gum.

409

:

While you're shopping.

410

:

Brian: Really?

411

:

John: Yeah, if you've got gum in your

mouth, it's harder for you to imagine

412

:

the taste and the flavor and the texture

of what it is you're smelling when

413

:

you walk by like a bakery or whatever.

414

:

So,

415

:

Brian: It's like the antidote.

416

:

John: yeah.

417

:

So, so, especially, you

know, some nice minty gum.

418

:

Next time you're going

through the mall, do that.

419

:

Maybe you'll be able to

walk by Auntie Anne's.

420

:

Whoa.

421

:

Brian: uh, they're known to have

an artificial grilled , scent,

422

:

uh, applied to their frozen

burgers to make them smell fresh.

423

:

And, uh, and then listen to this,

speaking of scent machines, they

424

:

strategically place them in bushes

that disperse scents of cotton

425

:

candy, popcorn, and caramel apples.

426

:

John: Okay, now I feel manipulated.

427

:

That does feel dirty.

428

:

Brian: So that's pretty nuts.

429

:

Um, so, so let's go beyond smell here.

430

:

John: Yeah.

431

:

Brian: And, you know, by the way, the 1

other example I did want to mention on

432

:

when it came to, um, to smell is that

Panera actually changed their whole

433

:

operations to bake their bread during

the day instead of at night, to make

434

:

sure it's not like fresh bread all the

435

:

John: Oh, wow.

436

:

Brian: that was a good 1.

437

:

Um, but the other sense here that we

should bring up is, um, is hearing.

438

:

John: Hearing.

439

:

Yeah.

440

:

Yeah.

441

:

Brian: music is obviously just part of the

same type of sensory type of experience.

442

:

I found an interesting report from

mood media, feeling type, company.

443

:

And so, they did a, 2019

survey of 10, 000 Consumers.

444

:

And, here's some interesting

stats that came out of that.

445

:

Nearly half of respondents spend longer

time in a store because they liked

446

:

what was playing on the speakers and.

447

:

57 percent said they'd be more likely

to ditch their shopping cart if a

448

:

store made questionable music choices.

449

:

John: Ooh.

450

:

Questionable music choices.

451

:

How's that defined?

452

:

Like what?

453

:

ABBA?

454

:

What are we talking

455

:

Brian: I don't know, I don't know, Slow

Jams, I don't know, but the uh, know,

456

:

you think, you think if you just go

with adult contemporary it'll work for

457

:

everybody, and not really have a, uh,

point of view up or down, but, Yeah, I

458

:

John: Well, I know music tempo can

have a big impact on turnover at

459

:

a, at a food establishment, right?

460

:

Brian: well, you would not be

shocked probably to know that music

461

:

is the number one factor in lifting

a shopper's mood in the store.

462

:

John: Really?

463

:

Number one.

464

:

Brian: Yep.

465

:

It

466

:

has an overall,

467

:

John: And wow.

468

:

Brian: yeah, it has an overall positive

impact on 85 percent of shoppers.

469

:

Here's another one.

470

:

Here's another one.

471

:

more than half of Gen Z.

472

:

So 59 percent say they've stayed in

a physical place longer because they

473

:

were enjoying the music and then,

other interesting thing to me was four

474

:

and 10 consumers around the globe,

say feeling, , like the experience

475

:

is personalized to them, makes them

more likely to purchase something.

476

:

So connecting the music to the way

that, you know, you'd like , , to

477

:

listen or, or things that are more

personal to you, uh, has an impact too.

478

:

So.

479

:

John: Fascinating.

480

:

Brian: So, uh, really interesting topic.

481

:

And I'm sure, as we're interacting

with things around the holidays,

482

:

we'll see a lot of that stuff.

483

:

John: So if we want to shop at

a store, but we don't like their

484

:

music, I mean, just abandoning the

cart and running out seems extreme.

485

:

I mean, should we wear earphones?

486

:

We're chewing gum.

487

:

We are wearing earphones.

488

:

Maybe you should put blinders on.

489

:

What do we do?

490

:

How do we stay more

491

:

Brian: know, I don't know about you,

but when I'm shopping, there definitely

492

:

becomes a point where I, uh, I'm done,

493

:

John: Yeah,

494

:

Brian: I've checked out.

495

:

And so maybe that happens sooner if

it's music, isn't something that I like.

496

:

But maybe if it puts me in a good

mood, I'm sticking around longer.

497

:

But I definitely hit a wall.

498

:

I don't, you know, especially if I'm

shopping with my spouse or something.

499

:

So

500

:

John: Yes.

501

:

Okay.

502

:

We'll leave that alone.

503

:

And, uh, yeah, I think also, I think

we've covered most of the census, uh,

504

:

and pretty good conversation on retail.

505

:

What else you got today?

506

:

Brian: All right.

507

:

So I have a lightning round for you.

508

:

John: Ooh, yay.

509

:

Brian: it was a nice little

segment we started last, last time.

510

:

Uh, so I thought I'd keep it going.

511

:

John: Okay, I'm ready.

512

:

Brian: quick questions I want

on the spot decisions here.

513

:

These questions have not been

revealed to John, so he's not aware

514

:

of what I'm going to ask him here.

515

:

So let's get, let's get going.

516

:

All

517

:

John: Are there any, are there

any right wrong questions here?

518

:

Brian: There's only

judgment, not right or wrong.

519

:

John: Okay, great.

520

:

Um, strong, strong on judgment.

521

:

Brian: This is a judgment,

all judgment zone.

522

:

Okay.

523

:

So number one, I got to give

credit to some of my friends

524

:

who came up with this one.

525

:

home jerseys and a sporting event.

526

:

Should they be wearing

traditional home white jerseys or

527

:

whatever looks best on TV?

528

:

John: Whatever looks best.

529

:

Brian: Okay, wrong answer,

but let's go to the next one.

530

:

All

531

:

John: Wait, you gotta wear white at home?

532

:

Brian: Yes, it's tradition.

533

:

It's always, it's been

happening since the, the dawn

534

:

of sports, your home weights.

535

:

John: Nonsense.

536

:

Nonsense, I say.

537

:

Brian: I don't know.

538

:

That's

539

:

John: All right, so, so how do you, so

is it, are like these blackout games when

540

:

everyone wears the black uniform that the

541

:

Brian: about sensory overload.

542

:

John: yeah, okay.

543

:

Keep going.

544

:

Brian: And now, you know, a lot of

the, there's like second, third,

545

:

17th jerseys that teams have.

546

:

John: Oh, it's a money making machine.

547

:

Brian: All right.

548

:

So 2nd question.

549

:

NFL Black Friday, came and went and

Amazon did a, , a game, , which.

550

:

Really took marketing to another level.

551

:

Um, but my question for you is, is the

NFL a genius and Amazon or, are we getting

552

:

too greedy with taking over all these

days that, other sports might have an

553

:

John: I think both things can be true.

554

:

Yes.

555

:

And yes.

556

:

Brian: Oh, look at you.

557

:

John: They are genius and greedy.

558

:

Brian: Okay.

559

:

All right.

560

:

Daylight savings or no daylight savings?

561

:

John: I, I've never understood

why people get their knickers in

562

:

such a knot over daily savings.

563

:

It's not that big a deal.

564

:

Just change the clocks and

move on with your life.

565

:

Brian: Okay.

566

:

Okay.

567

:

I can live with that.

568

:

Coffee as soon as you wake up or

when you're starting to do stuff?

569

:

Can

570

:

John: I wake up.

571

:

Brian: you start a drip into your,

into your veins as you're waking up?

572

:

John: Uh, this is not

an arbitrary figure.

573

:

I have coffee brewing within nine

minutes of getting out of bed.

574

:

Brian: Really?

575

:

Do you set an alarm on

or you do it yourself

576

:

John: Uh, it's a long story why I

know that, but I do know that if

577

:

I wake up at 6 o'clock before 6.

578

:

10, the coffee is dripping.

579

:

Brian: We should do a data

report on this for both of us.

580

:

All right.

581

:

Interesting.

582

:

I don't want to drink a sip

of coffee until I'm ready to

583

:

do something because I love.

584

:

John: Mm.

585

:

Brian: Drinking coffee while I'm, it's, I

love it to kick in while I'm doing stuff.

586

:

It just, it makes everything,

uh, it makes everything right.

587

:

Okay.

588

:

John: Again, both things can be true.

589

:

Brian: Joe as well.

590

:

All right.

591

:

Best music period, seventies,

eighties, or nineties.

592

:

John: Ooh, yeah, that's a hard one.

593

:

I'm, I'm gonna, this is

gonna be controversial.

594

:

Um, I'm gonna say 90s just for sheer fun.

595

:

Not quality of music, but for fun.

596

:

Brian: Okay, I can live with

that, uh, since I'm a 90s kid,

597

:

but I think 70s are the best.

598

:

Alright.

599

:

John: Quality wise, you're probably right.

600

:

Brian: Alright.

601

:

Favorite physical marketing tactic?

602

:

Direct mail or vehicle wraps.

603

:

John: Oh, I love a vehicle wrap.

604

:

Brian: Yeah.

605

:

John: Mostly because, uh,

again, I'm using a statistic, 90

606

:

percent of them are god awful.

607

:

And I love it.

608

:

Brian: is nice to sit

around and watch those,

609

:

John: The bad vehicle

rap gives me great glee.

610

:

Brian: Good.

611

:

Alright.

612

:

That's all I got.

613

:

John: Okay, okay, this is good.

614

:

I feel like there were not a whole

lot of right wrong in there, but, but

615

:

like you said, a high judgment zone.

616

:

Judgment only zone.

617

:

Brian: Judgment only zone.

618

:

Yes.

619

:

John: I feel like it might be

time for my favorite segment, Dear

620

:

Hopelessly Unattainable Guest.

621

:

True.

622

:

Brian: Yes, this is true.

623

:

I got one.

624

:

John: Okay, your turn.

625

:

Brian: we,

626

:

John: Ring it.

627

:

Brian: I've been seeing what we've

been doing to try to get a star and get

628

:

somebody that's Hopelessly unattainable.

629

:

And, I don't know where

this came from, but, uh, I'm

630

:

inspired to talk to this artist.

631

:

Um, her name is Jennifer Lopez,

632

:

John: Ooh.

633

:

Brian: So here we go.

634

:

I thought, uh, really interesting figure

and, uh, let's see if we can get her.

635

:

Okay.

636

:

All right.

637

:

So I wrote her a letter and dear Jennifer.

638

:

J Lo.

639

:

Jenny from the block.

640

:

You're an icon, a legend, a star.

641

:

You've worn so many hats in your career.

642

:

A fly girl dancer on the legendary

sketch comedy In Living Color.

643

:

A singer that has won Grammys and about

every other musical award possible.

644

:

A top flight actress that has broken

through in dramas and comedies.

645

:

How about we complete your career

headdress with an appearance on our

646

:

exploding podcast, Snap Decisions.

647

:

I loved you in Out of

Sight with George Clooney.

648

:

You were amazing in Selina.

649

:

Who doesn't love guilty pleasures like

the wedding planner or Made in Manhattan?

650

:

I listened to Love Doesn't Cost a

Thing to get juiced for this podcast.

651

:

You're the perfect guest for our show,

someone whose life has no straight

652

:

paths and always reinvents themselves.

653

:

Our recent guest, Chris Waddell,

like you, has been named to the famed

654

:

People's Most Beautiful People list.

655

:

You actually won the award in 2011.

656

:

Let's talk about that.

657

:

And maybe you can provide tips on how

to get my co host John Young, also

658

:

known on Twitter as Philly JO on a, on

a future list, we're a serious podcast,

659

:

but for you, we're willing to talk

about your personal life, Mark Anthony.

660

:

A Rod, and of course Ben Affleck.

661

:

So much Ben.

662

:

Do you know Matt Damon?

663

:

How many times have you

watched Good Will Hunting?

664

:

In closing, we're here

to tell your story, Jen.

665

:

There's no better place than

Snap Decisions, and our forum

666

:

of middle aged white marketers.

667

:

Sincerely, Snap Decisions.

668

:

audioJohnYoung42615626252:

All right, nice.

669

:

I really like your close

there in particular.

670

:

audioBrianMarks32615626252:

Yeah, thank you.

671

:

I think, uh, I think we got a shot.

672

:

John: I mean, listen, she,

uh, she's already proved she's

673

:

got dubious taste in men.

674

:

So why not join us for this podcast to me?

675

:

Brian: We're the podcast for the stars.

676

:

audioJohnYoung42615626252: just need

that one star to get that going, right?

677

:

audioBrianMarks32615626252: It'll

just feed off of each other.

678

:

Once we start getting some advertising,

maybe it'll pay for our talent recruiting

679

:

firm and we'll start going after the Tim

Cooks and Michael Jordans and JLo's.

680

:

audioJohnYoung42615626252: Why not?

681

:

I mean,

682

:

audioBrianMarks32615626252:

Hey, and we'll come to you.

683

:

We'll come to you.

684

:

We can do it.

685

:

We'll do it live in person

686

:

audioJohnYoung42615626252: Absolutely.

687

:

I think we, I think we offered

to go visit Necker Island to

688

:

interview Sir Richard Branson.

689

:

So yeah, wherever J Lo happens

to be, that's where I'll show up.

690

:

audioBrianMarks32615626252: Yeah,

hey and nothing against our guests.

691

:

Our guests are uh, barely attainable

as it is and we love them and so I

692

:

will do a little tease on next episode.

693

:

We got a friend of the program coming

on , and , we're gonna have a great

694

:

episode talk About their background,

but also get them a little bit more

695

:

involved in some of our snap decisions.

696

:

So looking forward to that.

697

:

audioJohnYoung42615626252: Same.

698

:

Yeah.

699

:

And that'll be good.

700

:

That'll be, uh, it'll pick up on

where we left off with the idea of,

701

:

uh, scent marketing a little bit

702

:

audioBrianMarks32615626252: Oh, good plug.

703

:

Good plug.

704

:

audioJohnYoung42615626252: easier.

705

:

All right.

706

:

Thanks, Brian.

707

:

Good seeing you.

708

:

audioBrianMarks32615626252:

Good to see you.

709

:

Shut it down.

710

:

audioJohnYoung42615626252:

Take care, everybody.

711

:

John: Shop smart.

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About the Podcast

Snap Decisions
Snap Decisions gives you a behind-the-scenes look at the key decisions that shape how products, brands and personalities present themselves to the world. Two savvy marketers and Monday morning quarterbacks, Brian Marks and John Young, offer their analysis of marketing and tech news and interview fascinating people who make big decisions. Learn about unique journeys and how pivotal moments drove success.

About your hosts

John Young

Profile picture for John Young
Growing up as the kid who actually enjoyed watching ads as much as classic TV reruns, it’s no surprise John Young ended up as a brand marketing executive with a passion for crafting how organizations show up in the world. He’s an entrepreneurial-minded chief marketing officer with extensive experience building stronger brands and growing businesses.

Working with companies ranging from startups to Fortune 30, he has delivered impactful marketing experiences that resonate with customers, tackled thorny communications and positioning challenges, and led large-scale change initiatives. John has driven results and executed award-winning programs for companies across various industries.

A two-time founder, John currently leads a marketing advisory firm, J-Fly Partners, where he helps growing businesses with brand positioning strategies, marketing plans, pitch decks to investors and customers, communications, product launch plans, PR, and performance media campaigns.

Brian Marks

Profile picture for Brian Marks
Brian’s spent more than 20 years building and activating digital marketing and communications strategies for diverse brands across financial services, food, education and sports. His leadership has led strategic growth and digital transformation through innovative marketing solutions. With a strong focus on strategy, planning, content creation, and customer experience, he’s delivered results that elevate brands and enhance engagement. His expertise spans several key areas: Strategy + Planning, Content + CX, Technology + Enablement, and Leadership + Mentoring.

Marketing jargon aside, he’s passionate about:

-> relentlessly finding the right solution that makes the right difference at the right time
-> saying Yes when others only say No and saying No when others only say Yes
-> bringing people together to accomplish something bigger than ourselves
-> enjoying every moment
-> Philadelphia