Episode 9

full
Published on:

1st Feb 2024

Seeing the Forest through the Trees: NBC Universal’s Ellen Stone

Ellen Stone, EVP of Consumer Engagement & Brand for Bravo, Oxygen, USA, SYFY, E!, and Universal Kids, joins the guys to talk about marketing programming across today’s fractured TV viewing experiences. Ellen talks about the collective effort at NBCU to build quality content and connect it to audiences where and how they engage. Hear about Bravocon, Andy Cohen, Peacock and so much more. Also, don’t miss John jumping out of the suite shirtless with his Hopelessly Unattainable plea. 

Key topics & chapter markers 

(00:32) Lightening Round

(03:42) TV spend behaviors

(06:59) The TV eco-system is really complicated

(09:17) Welcome Ellen Stone!

(10:46) Understanding your audience

(15:37) Leveraging social conversation and engagement

(23:58) Building and structuring a team 

(26:10) Expanding the brand in real life: BravoCon

(28:13) An advocate in Andy Cohen

(31:21) Secret sauce: Getting awareness across NBCU channels

(34:47) Buying awareness outside NBCU channels

(37:45) Reinvigorating older shows on new platforms

(43:53) A bold, smart decision: Rebranding Oxygen Network to True Crime

(49:00) Dear Hopelessly Unattainable Guest

Background content

TiVo Video Trends Report - TiVo.com

40% of consumers confused about where to find content they want to watch - StreamTVInsider.com

Lee Hunt’s CMO Intelligence

Bravocon - Bravotv.com

The Most Shocking Revelations About ‘Scandoval’ From the Vanderpump Rules Season 10 Finale - Time

NBCUniversal’s ‘secret sauce:’ How its Symphony campaigns boost ‘This Is Us’ and other projects - The Los Angeles Times

Oxygen Officially Rebranding as Crime-Focused Network - Hollywood Reporter

Connect with Brian and John on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianmarks13/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-l-young/

Transcript
John:

Good morning, Brian.

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Brian: Happy 2024, we're

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John: Woohoo.

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Here we go.

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Brian: back.

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John: We're back.

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And coming back, Brian, I want to,

dive in strong to today's topic.

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we're going to later talk about

how networks drive viewership

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in today's really complicated TV

ecosystem with a fantastic guest.

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But first, I know you and I both love

TV we like to talk about TV shows.

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Brian: Yeah, who doesn't like

to, watch more and more TV?

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John: Exactly.

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And, you've given me some

really good recommendations.

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I'd like to think I've given you some.

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I want to start today with a, Snap

Decisions lightning round TV show edition.

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Brian: All right, let's get in it.

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John: Are you ready?

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Okay.

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This is going to be hard.

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These are really tough

choices, in some cases.

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Just go as quick as you can.

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You ready?

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Cheers, or friends.

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Brian: Cheers.

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John: Right answer.

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Seinfeld or curb your enthusiasm?

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Brian: Oh god.

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John: Tough one.

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Come on.

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Cut.

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Knee

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Brian: right, Seinfeld.

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Seinfeld.

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John: despite this being a high judgment

zone, we're not, no judgment because

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Brian: I do love Curb as much as

anybody, but, Seinfeld, just because

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I can put it on around everybody

Curb, can't watch that around

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John: Yeah.

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People get a little squeamish.

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Okay.

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The office or arrested development.

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Told you they're hard.

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Brian: Arrested Development.

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But that's just as hard as the last

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John: Ooh.

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Brutal.

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Brutal choice.

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South Park or the Simpsons.

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Brian: Simpsons.

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John: I agree.

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Homeland or the Americans?

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Brian: Ooh.

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I'm gonna say Homeland, but, The

Americans is pretty good too.

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John: Again, these are like

Sophie's Choice choices here.

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Stranger Things or Lost?

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Brian: Stranger Things.

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John: Last one.

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Hard one.

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Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones?

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Brian: Breaking bad.

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John: Okay.

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Yeah.

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I'm with you on that.

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All right.

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So, , sorry to put you

through the, the ringer there.

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That's tough.

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Yeah.

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And, and, and while I started off a

little bit in, the way back machine there.

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Now we're in this golden age of TV, right?

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And it comes with gold level pricing.

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Brian: Who does it ever?

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John: Yeah.

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All right.

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So, uh, top of your head.

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Uh, it's tough to figure this out.

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I know, but how much do you think

you pay each month for TV services?

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Yeah.

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Brian: I probably pay, uh, about 150.

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John: Okay.

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How many different packages do you

think you've got in there for that 150?

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Brian: Oh my God, I got, I got so many.

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I, uh, so my streamer is for

regular television is YouTube TV.

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And then I have, um, And during, like,

football season, I have an add on for,

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like, Red Zone, , I have the Disney

bundle, , you know, Disney Hulu, ESPN That

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actually comes through my Verizon package,

though, so I don't even pay for that.

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I would pay for that if I didn't,

, mostly because, , my kids watch

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a lot of Disney I have Paramount

Plus, and I have Netflix, obviously.

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Everybody has Netflix.

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Apple TV, which has had some

good shows and has been a

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nice add on to Apple services.

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They've made that easy

to jump on board with.

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, I have, Max, you know, the old HBO.

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John: All right.

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Let me you a different question.

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What packages don't, what

packages don't you have?

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Brian: I have Peacock, even

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John: All

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Brian: I don't know.

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It's a, it's a disease.

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John: yeah.

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Okay.

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I'd say there's no way.

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You're at 150 bucks a month

with all those services.

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Brian: You think it's more?

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John: I, I know it's more.

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Brian: Well, I don't know.

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I mean, apple TV's less than $10 a month.

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Peacock's 5 99 a month.

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The Max HBO, , platform, , I paid

annually and to get it down to about 10

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or $12 a month, Amazon Prime, how much

is the TV component of Amazon Prime?

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When you're really buying it for

the ability to get packages faster.

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John: So you're willing to

rationalize some of these expenses

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as they're part of bundles.

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But all right, so I

heard a lot of sources.

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I didn't catch the number.

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I think I'm around six sources

plus a bunch of shared credentials,

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you know, from family members.

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I think around 120 bucks.

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Okay, I'm going to

share some stats, Brian.

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Brian: Okay.

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John: of all, in terms of how much people

actually spent, in the middle of last

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year, it came down a little bit to just

under 171 per month, average, in the U.

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S.

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Okay, so think about average household

income and think about 171 on average.

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And that's TiVo Video Trends Report.

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the number of video sources people

use grew from an average of just

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under nine in 2020 and to 11.

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6 at the end of 2022.

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Um, it came down just a little

bit halfway through the last year,

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but it's still like, you know,

people are around 10, 11 sources.

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I heard you kind of go past that

and you're going down your list.

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income is a big factor.

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Households earning less

than 80, 000 a year.

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Average 10 sources, but households earning

200, 000 or more average 14 sources.

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Brian: Wow.

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Yeah, they've made it more and more

complicated than that's for sure.

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John: and expensive.

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Alright, so if, if the other number

is accurate, 171 on TV, that leaves

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another hundred bucks on other

subscriptions, like music, publications.

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Wow.

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Well, you know, yes, it is complicated,

like you said, and all these kind of

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subscription video on demand services.

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This is, you know, clearly, I

think the increasing price is why

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we're seeing the rise of these.

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Ad supported models, right?

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Brian: Yeah.

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John: We keep mentioning this

idea that it's complicated.

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it's also complicated for the people

who are trying to promote content.

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Which is why we're talking

to our guest today.

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you're going to tackle one of the

reasons it's getting complicated.

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I'm going to tackle the other.

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So, you were looking into how

people find what they're looking for.

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Brian: Okay, so, , there's a

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And, here's some real problems

that, they found that's facing

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audiences looking for content.

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You know, 45 percent of consumers feel

like there's simply too many options.

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You know, used to be, I want choice,

but now there's too much choice.

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40 percent say they don't know

where to find the right shows.

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John: Amen.

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Brian: Yeah.

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And 33 percent say they don't

have the right subscription.

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so

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John: Except for you, who has every

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Brian: my, my way of

dealing with buy everything.

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And, you it's like the

ultimate fear of missing out.

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One thing that I think that, the

platforms have done really well to make.

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This new type of model work is

they've created better content.

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So, Netflix has, really gone

above and beyond just creating like

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content that's better than what

you can get on regular cable TV.

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You know, Apple has done it,

HBO has done it for years.

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So the one trend that I'm also seeing is

that they are cutting back on creating

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new content and they're charging you more.

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So back Skimpflation,

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John: Yes.

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They absolutely are.

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That's why it's a good thing.

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Netflix is, is really strong and

others on kind of the recommendation

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algorithms to put something good in

front of you because there's less there

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for you to go explore and discover

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Brian: yeah, so I think you're going

to start seeing more consolidation of

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these platforms, which would be great

for my subscription models, uh, And

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you're already seeing some of it, like,

uh, Disney is, uh, they're including

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navigation in their app for Hulu content.

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There's been a lot of talk

about, Paramount and Max

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coming together and merging.

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so I think when we come back in

the next year, you're going to see a

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completely different, landscape here.

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John: Yeah.

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All right.

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I want to jump off of the

example you just referenced about

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Hulu being promoted in Disney.

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Okay, so under this idea that the TV

ecosystem is really complicated, , I

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did some research and just six

years ago, in:

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a network's promotion time pushed

content on their own channel, right?

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You're watching network A, they're

pushing content that they have on

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that network at a different time.

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That's called on air promotion.

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Back then, six years ago, only 10 percent

of that inventory was used for internal

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cross channel, which means promoting

content on their sister channels, right?

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Last year, just five years later.

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Now it's a third of a network's

promo time is dedicated to pushing

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something on a sister channel.

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And now if you're watching live TV,

you've got, you've got programmers pushing

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content out of linear TV into a streaming

platform, which used to be unheard of.

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And according to CMO intelligence,

a really good resource.

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If you're watching TV on direct

TV, that's just one example.

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It could be Xfinity, it could be

Spectrum, it could be Fios, wherever

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you're getting your live TV.

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One out of every five.

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For a show, we're for a

show on a competing network.

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Brian: that's crazy

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John: So, if you're responsible for

building a network and promoting

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specific shows, what the hell do you

do in this complicated ecosystem?

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So, on that note, Brian, I

have a snap decision for you

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before we get to our guest.

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Brian: Yeah,

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John: As a TV aficionado, which I think

you are, how important is a network brand?

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Are you picking content purely on a

show by show basis or do you still

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have like some go to network brands

that you turn to for discovery?

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Brian: Well, I I think the main discovery

places are the Streaming brands and

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not necessarily the network brands.

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I mean, I think the network brands

still hold some cachet in trust.

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So if the television show, it's coming

from a brand, I think that still

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carries weight, but I'm exploring

it through a streaming brand.

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What about you?

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John: A little bit all

over the map, you know.

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I think word of mouth is

still dominant for me.

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, if it wasn't for sports, I probably would

have no sense about new content coming on

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if it wasn't recommended to me by a friend

or By, you know, a streaming service.

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to me, there's still some

cachet to a network brand.

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Like, I hear someone say, there's

this great new show on HBO.

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Like, I get that, right?

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Is now a good time to bring

in an expert to help us talk

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about how she navigates this

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Brian: Yeah.

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Expert slash therapist

So let's get into it.

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As we talk about navigating today's

ever evolving TV viewing habits,

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behaviors and media overall.

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We're excited to bring in

a true expert in the space.

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This woman cut her teeth at ad agencies

and the glory days of television and

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marketing supporting campaigns like

the got milk, milk mustache ads and

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Lipton's that's brisk baby commercials.

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She's now at NBC universal where she's

executive VP of consumer engagement

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and brand strategy for a collection of

networks, including Bravo, USA sci fi.

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E and oxygen helping these brands position

themselves in the lifestyle space.

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This includes keeping the thirsty

bravaholics content with more and

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more real housewives franchises

and finding new creative and

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innovative ways to build engagement.

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She is a real marketing trailblazer.

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She is Ellen Stone.

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Welcome to Snap Decisions.

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Ellen: Thank you for having me.

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John: Ellen, we are thrilled.

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Brian, Brian's heard me gush

about, uh, what a, what a

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fantastic, savvy marketer you are.

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And with such a fantastic, resume

and list of accomplishments.

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We are, we are honored to have you here.

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So thank you so much for joining.

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Ellen: Thank you.

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Pleasure to be here.

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John: All right.

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So, Brian and I talk all the time in

our personal lives about, TV shows

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that we like and don't like and where

to find them and more and more we find

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ourselves talking about the complexity

of navigating today's media world, right?

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Where's that show?

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How do I watch it?

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What show?

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How'd you find about it?

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there are a few areas we'd love to

hit on with you and the first is

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that very tricky area of, as a, as

a marketer, you've got to build this

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overarching network brand for Bravo.

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Okay.

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And promote individual shows and

presumably individual personalities.

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just, we want to hear about how you do it.

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Ellen: So, one of the things I will

say is on Bravo and on all my networks,

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the programming department gives us

such great storylines and such great,

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talent that personalities that come

into our shows that marketing is a joy.

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Number one, it is hard, I'm not

saying that, but we do have the

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content that people are searching

out and we've been able to find that.

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So.

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I think we all know the basic

elements of what we have to do.

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We have to really understand our audience.

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And at Bravo, we've got our Bravoholics,

our fans, and they are rabid fans.

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We've kept this brand relatively

tight so that they really do

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understand what they're getting

when they come to a Bravo show.

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Because the storytelling is so

authentic to our personalities.

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And what we do is enhance that we find

the audiences who want that storytelling

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and we match them with different

environments of where their behaviors are.

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So it's constantly looking

for the new behavior.

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How do we reach them?

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Which gets harder and harder every

day because you've got so many

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new opportunities and platforms.

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and it's also about motivating

them to watch, right?

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So that's our social conversation.

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How do we make sure that we're

authentic in the social conversation

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and the voice we're having?

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And one of the things that Bravo did

early on, and in fact, he has done that.

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I'm also on USA and sci fi.

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And one of the properties is Chucky.

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You can't get a more

authentic voice than Chucky.

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And we created the Chucky is real.

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So.

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social handle.

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And that is all about making

sure that our voice is authentic.

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And also we're talking as friends.

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We're not talking to a

fan because we are fans.

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Our social team knows that the brand is

fans of the brand and fans of the show.

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And so we've changed how we speak.

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Over the years to make sure that all

of the bravoholics and the Chucky

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fans and the live from E red carpet

fans, they know that we are every

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bit in it with them as they are.

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We drive the conversations they

want to hear, not the only the

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conversations that we want them to hear.

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There's a definite distinctive

difference in how we're speaking

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and how that's evolved over time.

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Brian: to me it sounds like the principles

of marketing carry through no matter

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what you are, you just plug and play

different tactics based off of what the

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audiences need and where they are, right?

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Ellen: Yeah, I mean the principle

markings are core and haven't changed

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that much, but the tactics and

the strategies and how you measure

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those tactics change every day.

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Because consumer behavior

changes every day.

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So my main goal is to marry up a great

product, or in my case, piece of content

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with an audience through an environment

that works and finding those places for

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them to really get motivated to watch.

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And not only that, but my goal is

to make them feel a part of the

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family, a part of the brand so

that they become brand evangelists.

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Brian: So

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how do you measure success?

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Ellen: there are, well, you

know, it's the TV industry.

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I get measured every day with

a rate, you know, a rate card.

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I've got my report card thrown at

me and we try not to look at it

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every day because honestly, today

you've got to cume your audience.

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So we try not to look at it

because the day of the live same

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no longer tells you the story.

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John: yeah.

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And when you say, Kim, your audience,

I just, everyone understands like what

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you mean there is obviously there's a,

there's the same day who watched it live a

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linear, but then you have a long trailing

time period where people are watching

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on streaming platform on wherever.

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Right.

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And then you say you

relating your audience

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Ellen: I'm assuming my audience, right?

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I'm looking at the audience.

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Live same, but I'm really

looking at it live seven.

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I'll even go out to live 31 because

if I don't know who's watching

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it, then I can't reach them again.

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we're looking at KPIs that are much

longer in terms of the audience.

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We're also looking at

the social conversation.

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And the social conversation is

telling us whether it's positive

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or maybe slight, like, oh my God,

but it's telling us what is it that

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they're feeling about these shows.

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And is it a love to hate?

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Is it a love to love?

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Is it a love to see what happens next?

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This is what I'm, I'm hearing

from the social verse.

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And this is what I'm reacting

to and pivoting to in real time.

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John: So so pick up on that social verse.

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I want to ask you real quickly.

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You mentioned the idea of, you know,

you measure the live audience plus seven

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days plus 31 days in that in that tail.

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Obviously, it drops off

pretty quickly, right?

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But when you see

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Ellen: Well, it does and it doesn't,

cause remember Bravo and some of our other

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shows are live our next day on Peacock.

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So Peacock has become critical.

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To the marketing.

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We work with them so tightly to make

sure that it doesn't drop off like it

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used to in the linear world because

that's not a world we live in anymore,

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John: are you able to kind of stir

the pot when you see stuff happening

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on social that's interesting you can

kind of do you see a spike happening

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based on there's a social conversation

that caught fire a week after and

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now you're seeing viewership pop up

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Ellen: absolutely.

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I mean, two really great examples.

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Three really great examples live in

Bravo, but but also in other networks.

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So in Bravo, we had Vanderpump Rules

and in season 10, we had a huge

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moment that took over pop culture.

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It just took over pop culture and that

doesn't mean you wait and see, Oh,

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let's see how the conversation is going.

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That means that Peacock and

Bravo got together immediately

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with press production.

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It was everyone and that's one of the

wonderful things about NBCUniversal.

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The, the silos break down.

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Like we are all in it

together on our shows.

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Comcast comes in and we all

work together to say, what does.

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The audience needs, what do

our bravoholics and potential

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:

perspective bravoholics need

to get involved in the show?

388

:

So for example when that moment happened

At the end of season 10 the first

389

:

thing that happened was we all got

together, press, social brand production.

390

:

Nobody did, cause we had

to treat this with respect.

391

:

These are talent that

we know, that we love.

392

:

We've had ten seasons with them,

and we're friends with them.

393

:

Our job was to make sure that our fans,

our Bravo holics, had what they need to

394

:

understand what was happening on the show.

395

:

And as importantly, provide context for

new potential Bravo holics to catch up and

396

:

understand what was happening on the show

so they can be a part of the Bravo verse.

397

:

We did that with Peacock, we did

that with Ketchup Dyes, we did

398

:

that, did that with social media.

399

:

Peacock, used their editorial.

400

:

It was all these different ways

of bringing fans into the current

401

:

situation and the current storyline.

402

:

And press was all about, you, you saw

the Vanderpump Rules cast all over.

403

:

So we had people, Lisa Vanderpump

and Ariana, who are two members

404

:

of the cast, they were at the

White House Correspondents Dinner.

405

:

You know, we saw the moment and we

wanted to make sure that everyone

406

:

could enjoy it as much as, as we could.

407

:

And we're continuing.

408

:

It's one of my favorite things.

409

:

So last fall we had the ultimate consumer

410

:

John: Yeah, we want to know,

we want to hear about BravoCon.

411

:

Ellen: It's called Bravo Con.

412

:

It's really big.

413

:

And it was our third Bravo Con.

414

:

And during that we had panels on

Vanderpump because it's so, it was

415

:

so popular and wanted them to talk to

the producers and the talent and, and

416

:

even people who weren't on the show,

but other talent who loved the show.

417

:

So it's this, it's this, um,

it's this environment where you

418

:

can just really, really dig deep

into being in the Bravoverse.

419

:

It was there.

420

:

that we teased season 11.

421

:

And since then, we haven't stopped.

422

:

We've made sure that that pulse

conversation kept going up until

423

:

last week when we had a premier

party for Vanderpump, which was

424

:

actually the first time we opened

up our premier parties to consumers.

425

:

So they were able to get it by a ticket

and come and actually enjoy the first

426

:

episode prior to the live airing.

427

:

of Vanderpump and it was,

it was a great moment.

428

:

It was such a great moment and we knew it

would be a great moment that we actually

429

:

used it to launch the valley, which is

a show that comes out of Vanderpump.

430

:

There were always looking for

those opportunities in marketing.

431

:

To help the next big thing.

432

:

So during the Vanderpump right before

that you, they were bated breath

433

:

waiting to see, the premiere episode,

we showed a tease for the valley and

434

:

they saw many of the casts that were.

435

:

older Vanderpump personalities

in the new show, The Valley,

436

:

and we were able to launch it.

437

:

So what we try to do in marketing is look

for those opportunities, surprise and

438

:

delight, or straightforward to give the

fans all the information they need to

439

:

really enjoy what's happening on Bravo.

440

:

Or USA or sci fi or whatever show

that we're trying to promote.

441

:

Brian: the opportunities today are

just, I mean, it's just endless and

442

:

the ability to be able to do what

you said and just either write it out

443

:

and continue to talk about things or

create a different show because of

444

:

something that happened, it's wild.

445

:

John: And all these platforms you can

push to, like, what you're talking

446

:

about just now is like a classic.

447

:

You created a tentpole event with

BravoCon to tease the something that's

448

:

coming out at the end of January.

449

:

And then you've got the steady drum beat

all leading up to a live linear premiere.

450

:

That's not even the beginning, right?

451

:

It's, it's all those places

like Brian was just alluding to.

452

:

All these different places and,

and shows you can start promoting

453

:

off of that in different places.

454

:

It's complicated.

455

:

Ellen: And, and, and all the

different platforms you can use.

456

:

So, um, back in last year, we

e launched House of Villains.

457

:

It was one of our best premieres on E.

458

:

It was fantastic.

459

:

It had great talent.

460

:

It had great story.

461

:

It's a competition show

with these villains.

462

:

It was great.

463

:

We were able to utilize YouTube

to help really push that.

464

:

And, and this again, it's

it's not the newest, tactic.

465

:

But the way we did it strategically

was a little different from others

466

:

in that we had talent that was known.

467

:

Because they were all

villains on other shows.

468

:

So we were able to grab other, IP from

other areas on YouTube and bring them all

469

:

and funnel them to House of Villains on

YouTube, which helped us keep the sampling

470

:

going and push them to the linear viewing.

471

:

Because while we love YouTube,

we really do want them to watch

472

:

on the linear viewing, right?

473

:

So, it was a great show

and a great success.

474

:

And again, I can't tell you how

much, how important it is that the

475

:

story itself is great, I really am

incredibly blessed that the content

476

:

that we're marketing is that strong.

477

:

John: Brian and I are always talking

about the importance of a strong product,

478

:

great marketing can only go so far.

479

:

You've got to

480

:

Right.

481

:

We can get them there, but if, but it's,

we need, we need them to stay there.

482

:

And that is the amazing

content that we have.

483

:

So there's so many places

we can keep diving in.

484

:

But you just touched on the idea of IP.

485

:

So the intellectual property, let's

think about all these show brands.

486

:

How do you decide when you're going

to lean into a network brand, Bravo

487

:

or Oxygen or whatever it is versus

a show and what's the connection?

488

:

How do you connect those things so that

people understand this is a Bravo show?

489

:

Ellen: Yeah.

490

:

So first of all, we make sure that the

architecture of the brand is pretty tight,

491

:

you know, and we get, we are very careful

in that framework that we put together for

492

:

each and every brand and in communicating

that framework across the entire.

493

:

Organization.

494

:

So that when people are developing

any kind of asset, the show,

495

:

whatever it is, there is, you know,

there's a structure around it.

496

:

So when you see a Bravo show, that

storytelling is different from

497

:

something you'll see on another network.

498

:

That's number one, right?

499

:

Then how we market it.

500

:

We're very careful in making sure

that we have a tight brand structure

501

:

so that when you see Bravo marketing.

502

:

You know immediately it's

Bravo when you see a Chucky ad.

503

:

And remember, Chucky has

incredible IP from the movie

504

:

John: I don't know if you noticed

Brian perk up when you mentioned

505

:

Chucky, but heading into he had

something he wanted to ask you about.

506

:

So,

507

:

Ellen: I love Chucky.

508

:

That's a huge IP.

509

:

And we had to make sure it was, it's

so strong in the movie franchises.

510

:

We had to make it a TV franchise.

511

:

Right?

512

:

And so we had to make sure that

first of all, it's about USA

513

:

and USA is about its characters.

514

:

That's like, that's what the brand

has been built on from characters.

515

:

Welcome to the characters are here.

516

:

And so Chucky became a character we used.

517

:

We use the WWE, which, um,

as a, as a launching pad.

518

:

Also amazing characters, from Raw

as a launching pad to bring the

519

:

character out of Chucky, which was

embedded in the very essence of USA.

520

:

So everything we do has to be tied

and closely associated to the brand

521

:

because we've built that structure,

that framework, that architecture.

522

:

And everybody touching the brand

should absolutely understand that

523

:

architecture so that they have a checklist

of what goes and what doesn't go.

524

:

That isn't to say.

525

:

that brands aren't alive.

526

:

They are.

527

:

We pivot.

528

:

We stretch.

529

:

We don't want to.

530

:

It's not one thing.

531

:

And sometimes when you hold too

tight and you get too precious about

532

:

your brand, you can, you can push

away certain potential audiences.

533

:

And that's, that's actually the

potential downside of a brand.

534

:

You don't want to get too tight,

just like a person grows and changes.

535

:

Your brand has to grow and change, but

your core, your essence stays the saMe.

536

:

Brian: How do you organize and

structure your team so that they can

537

:

operate within the boundaries of the

brand, but also be able to make quick,

538

:

snappy decisions to keep moving things

forward and also deal with the real

539

:

time type of engagement stuff that

540

:

Ellen: Right.

541

:

So, um, first of all, the organization

always changes because consumers change.

542

:

So we've, we, we change

up how we do things.

543

:

We have, um, we have a whole team, a

center of excellence on brand strategy

544

:

and their purview is to go in and

understand a, the brand and be the Um,

545

:

sometimes the shows comes out first

and then the brand comes second, but

546

:

they write that strategy for us that

then is communicated across marketing.

547

:

And we also share it, of course, with

production and press, um, so that

548

:

everybody understands that we're all

working towards this common goal.

549

:

We have a brand team and a

promotions team, and their job is

550

:

to steward the brand and the show.

551

:

And their job is to work with

every department to make sure

552

:

that we're collaborative.

553

:

We are nothing if not collaborative.

554

:

I, that is my number one thing.

555

:

If you're, I drives me crazy.

556

:

If people start going,

Oh, this is my area.

557

:

We don't like that because you

never know where a good idea

558

:

comes from and you don't care.

559

:

John: And is that structured along,

like, uh, by a network brand or do you

560

:

have people who work across network

561

:

Ellen: We have people across

the brands, across the brands.

562

:

John: and what, so you mentioned,

you mentioned, uh, that you, you have

563

:

responsibilities for USA and Sci Fi

too, is that like, so you, you lead

564

:

marketing teams for all of those?

565

:

Networks.

566

:

Ellen: Brand, yes, the consumer

strategy teams and the brand

567

:

strategy teams, the consumer

engagement and brand strategy teams.

568

:

Yes.

569

:

For all of those.

570

:

And so they all, the brand marketing

group, they work across all of them.

571

:

We also have a brand growth

and monetization group.

572

:

This is mainly right now with Bravo.

573

:

We recognized how big Bravo

Con was and some of our other.

574

:

events or experiences.

575

:

And we thought if we can actually

make this, devoted team to this

576

:

area, then we could, we could grow

it and grow our audience as well.

577

:

So we literally have pulled out a group.

578

:

And we're we're looking at BravoCon

as a model on how we can then

579

:

create all of these other areas.

580

:

So that's a brand new department

that we hadn't had before.

581

:

John: So, so BravoCon you said was

huge, um, I'd love to get a sense

582

:

as to how big that was and I, I

think you had it in New York, right?

583

:

Ellen: Uh, the first two.

584

:

This is our third one.

585

:

So the first two were in New York.

586

:

It started out.

587

:

It started out small, about eight to 10,

000 people over the course of three days.

588

:

The second one in New York was like

around 25 plus to 30 in New York.

589

:

And we just did in November,

we moved it to Vegas.

590

:

John: Biggest.

591

:

Brian: No way.

592

:

John: Biggest

593

:

Ellen: was, I was insane.

594

:

I loved it.

595

:

And, um, that was 25 to 25 plus

over the course of three days.

596

:

John: And that, and that's become a whole

new monetization opportunity, right?

597

:

It's not just about driving audience

engagement and show consumption.

598

:

It's actually its, its

own moneymaker, right?

599

:

Anyone

600

:

Ellen: right.

601

:

When you, when you get a fan base, it's

That is as invested like our Bravo holics

602

:

and you have talent, our Bravo lebrities

that are also fans and just invested.

603

:

It's a perfect combination for bringing

those two entities together in a,

604

:

in a, and we created an environment

that was wholly and purely Bravo.

605

:

It was just, it's amazing.

606

:

It was panels, but it was photo ops.

607

:

It was a museum, a deconstructed

museum where you saw moments

608

:

throughout Bravo history, and you could

actually insert yourself, you know,

609

:

everything's an Instagram of a moment.

610

:

So you could insert yourself

into these incredible moments,

611

:

or you could just watch them.

612

:

And there are, and surprising delights,

just talent because the talents love

613

:

their fans and the talents are fans.

614

:

So they would just walk around and

all of a sudden you would just see.

615

:

Bravo liberties in the wild.

616

:

And it was brilliant.

617

:

It was brilliant.

618

:

Um, I can't remember which BravoCon

it was, but we had people saying, you

619

:

know, marriage, children, BravoCon,

that was the order of importance.

620

:

And so connecting is also a reason

why this growth and monetization

621

:

group, came to being because we

knew it was core to the, to the

622

:

framework, to the essence of, of Bravo.

623

:

And so what better way to grow the brand

than through connections and community.

624

:

So again, everything comes back when

you have a really strong framework.

625

:

Brian: Can you tell us a little bit

about what it's like to have somebody

626

:

like Andy Cohen, um, who's so magnetic

and kind of a marketing machine

627

:

on his own, as well as the other,

628

:

Ellen: Quite the charmer.

629

:

Brian: Yeah.

630

:

But like, I mean, I just feel like

having somebody like that in your

631

:

back pocket has got to be amazing.

632

:

Ellen: it's not bad.

633

:

It's not bad.

634

:

So the greatest thing about Andy is

that when I first started at Bravo,

635

:

Andy was the head of production and

he worked on the brand and he helped

636

:

build the brand and he knows that

brand like the back of his hand.

637

:

Andy and the show that he helped

create with Imbravo, Watch What Happens

638

:

Live, became an opportunity for fans

to really get a recap or an after show.

639

:

Of what's happening on Bravo, and

the brilliance of it is , he married

640

:

it with non Bravo celebrities, so

it's not just about Bravo, it's about

641

:

extending it across all the other

places that you can through different

642

:

celebrities, through different

bartenders, which if you know the show,

643

:

you'll know what I'm talking about,

644

:

John: Yeah, it's so clever.

645

:

I mean, you watch these aftershows

where, you know, the writers

646

:

and the producers are talking.

647

:

It feels very self congratulatory,

but to have others involved in the

648

:

conversation feels really authentic to

649

:

Ellen: that's not what Watch

What Happens Live is about.

650

:

Watch What Happens Live is about

is, again, it's Everyone talks as

651

:

if they're a fan and a friend of the

brand and that's why he's so great

652

:

because And he is the ultimate fan.

653

:

He really is he loves every show

He watches all the shows and then

654

:

he talks about them and he asks all

the questions That everyone wants

655

:

to know, not to mention, he asks for

questions and he's, he never shies away.

656

:

He probably does and I don't know,

but it doesn't seem like he ever

657

:

shies away from a hard question.

658

:

He's such an open book, um, and

he's really there for the brand.

659

:

He really is.

660

:

John: Well, it helped craft it.

661

:

So, yeah, like you said,

662

:

Ellen: He did.

663

:

John: you couldn't

664

:

Ellen: did.

665

:

So that was probably one of the

best parts about Andy is that

666

:

he really knows everything and

all the players from the get go.

667

:

And he cares.

668

:

He cares so deeply.

669

:

John: It's obvious you get

really excited when you talk

670

:

about the shows and the talent.

671

:

It's cool to see, like, you,

you've got an energy around it.

672

:

Is, is there like a favorite promo

or campaign that you've done to drive

673

:

one of these things to new heights?

674

:

Ellen: Um, I think I have a favorite.

675

:

I mean, I love what we did with

Vanderpump and how we, how we were

676

:

able to really pivot and give our

fans what they needed when such a

677

:

big, um, cultural moment happened.

678

:

I love that.

679

:

That was, I was so proud of my

team and everybody in the company.

680

:

I, it was amazing.

681

:

Um, I loved when Bravo decided to

try scripted, not our usual fare.

682

:

And we created, um, a huge

campaign against the, the, the

683

:

drama Dirty John and worked with

Oxygen who did the reality version.

684

:

Of Dirty John.

685

:

That was amazing because both brands

work together to make sure that

686

:

that was one of the biggest scripted

unscripted moments at the time.

687

:

And you, and that was a priority

across the entire NBCU enterprise,

688

:

Yes, it was.

689

:

John: got promotion on

all the other networks.

690

:

Can you tell us about

how that machine works?

691

:

It's

692

:

Ellen: So, we have Symphony,

which is, what Steve Burke

693

:

used to call our secret sauce.

694

:

And that is an area that was developed

by a former CMO at NBC, John Miller,

695

:

NBCU I should say, John Miller.

696

:

And now is headed up by Jenny Storms, who

is the CMO of, entertainment and sports.

697

:

And what she does is look at all the

priorities across the company, whether

698

:

it's movies, whether it's TV shows,

whether it's Comcast, priorities, and

699

:

she helps navigate how to utilize each

brand's assets and, platforms to raise.

700

:

the awareness of whatever priority it is.

701

:

And those priorities are, agreed

to at the highest level, right?

702

:

So the biggest one that when it

first started, it started with

703

:

this little movie called the

minions that no one had heard of.

704

:

And the next thing, you know, all

of our brands, Bravo, everyone was

705

:

creating some housewives minions.

706

:

tagline, whatever it could be.

707

:

when we had Chucky, we knew that we

wanted to get a male audience and sports

708

:

raised their hands and we were able to

do some really great sports integration.

709

:

So Symphony is our way of looking

at how each of the networks can

710

:

support , something in a very

effective and efficient way.

711

:

John: I'm seeing, I'm seeing the Olympics

promoted, pretty broadly in a lot of

712

:

different ways across all the networks.

713

:

I guess that's another example.

714

:

Ellen: Absolutely

715

:

Brian: I imagine it can get

pretty competitive on, you know,

716

:

promotion on, on peacock, you

know, like what, what kind of gets.

717

:

Ellen: right.

718

:

They do have a lot going on.

719

:

So, yes.

720

:

We all are, and we all have our children,

so we all want us to be promoted.

721

:

but, but that's the other thing we

understand that, the prioritization

722

:

is created due to the opportunity

of a show and due to what it's

723

:

going to do for the brand.

724

:

And that's how you start prioritizing.

725

:

Where is the audience?

726

:

What is the ultimate opportunity

for both that show As well as how

727

:

is that going to affect the brands?

728

:

So that's how you're prioritizing things.

729

:

Everything is getting support, certain

things are getting more support

730

:

upon the opportunity it presents.

731

:

Brian: So much opportunity, also so

much noise, know, what are the biggest

732

:

challenges and just trying to cut through

that and, and having, I mean, you have so

733

:

many great storylines and characters and

all these things, but, it's, even when

734

:

you have those things, it doesn't always

mean that you're going to be successful.

735

:

So, where do you find it most difficult?

736

:

Ellen: Well, I mean, what you just

said, cutting through all of the

737

:

clutter is really, really hard.

738

:

and finding your audience is hard.

739

:

There are so many places to, to

find them and, and welcome them.

740

:

But again, we all have limited resources.

741

:

And so.

742

:

We're very, very strategic

about where we place our bets.

743

:

We work with research.

744

:

We work with the show producers.

745

:

We work with press.

746

:

We work with social.

747

:

We really need to understand what are

the opportunities that are going to

748

:

afford us the biggest bang for our buck.

749

:

media.

750

:

We have an incredible media group head

headed by Kirsten Beatty, and she is

751

:

constantly working with agencies, working

with data, working with research to

752

:

make sure that A, we have the best, most

effective and efficient buys out there.

753

:

B, that as data changes, as people's

behavior changes, we're on top of it.

754

:

And she shares that with everybody.

755

:

you know, it's not just one thing.

756

:

Nowadays, you just really have to

be tapping into so many areas to

757

:

see where the audience is going.

758

:

and then you just, there's the art, right?

759

:

And then you're placing your own bet.

760

:

You're, what is your gut telling you?

761

:

John: Ellen, you just talked

about the idea of media buys.

762

:

talked a little bit about, you

know, inventory, ad inventory,

763

:

be that on your own networks or

sister networks promoting content.

764

:

how much time do you spend?

765

:

Buying time and money.

766

:

You can't tell the numbers, I'm sure,

but How much, how much investment do

767

:

you have to make in buying, real estate,

promotional real estate on other non

768

:

owned networks to drive viewership?

769

:

Ellen: Well,

770

:

John: priority?

771

:

Ellen: it, it's, it's always,

in order to get a new audience,

772

:

you have to leave your own.

773

:

environment, right?

774

:

So in order for us to expand our

audience, our reach, we need to go

775

:

and find new like minded audiences

to bring them into our fold.

776

:

And so it's a huge priority

owned and earned and paid.

777

:

All of that is a priority.

778

:

I'd like to say I don't even know how

I would percentage allocate it, but

779

:

paid is definitely something we need

because while we want to work with press

780

:

and get as much earned as we can, we

want to create that that viral moment.

781

:

And we do paid affords us an ability

to be really, strategic in grabbing

782

:

an audience that is similar in it.

783

:

behavior in look in demographic to what we

already know, likes our show, our network.

784

:

And it lets us to go out there

and find them and bring them in.

785

:

So it's, it's, I, it's hugely important.

786

:

John: Yeah.

787

:

So, yeah, I'm sure you can't tell us

about a percentage, but, you know, is,

788

:

is, is, is your, your focus on buying,

uh, inventory on other non owned networks

789

:

to drive your audience something that is

like a greater need than it used to be?

790

:

Ellen: it's it's harder.

791

:

It's a harder thing to do because

there are so many places to go.

792

:

So data becomes really important for

us to go out there and and be whether

793

:

it's programmatic or it's terror

picking picking those great big shows.

794

:

It's just incredibly important for us to

be able to do that in an effective way.

795

:

So it is it is really important.

796

:

But I can't tell you the power of

earned media because that's giving

797

:

you a social context and conversation

that's more organic, right?

798

:

So it's kind of like that old thing

when, back in the day when a magazine

799

:

would call you up and be like, we

are doing a two page spread on you.

800

:

So, can you buy another page?

801

:

And then you thought to yourself,

do I buy the page so I reinforce

802

:

what's happening in the spread?

803

:

Or, is the spread enough?

804

:

Do I really need a page

because I got people there?

805

:

That's the question all the time

that we're asking ourselves.

806

:

What is the relationship

between owned and earned?

807

:

And sometimes you

absolutely buy that page.

808

:

And sometimes you just let it go and

have the conversation speak for itself,

809

:

Brian: well, it just depends and, you

know, just flex based off of, I mean, just

810

:

the fact that you have the own stuff and,

you know, some of the non scripted space.

811

:

You know, you have the Bravo

liberties who can get the word

812

:

out and the conversations there.

813

:

You don't need to rely on the other stuff.

814

:

Whereas maybe like a new scripted

program might need a little bit more.

815

:

Ellen: little more help.

816

:

Brian: yeah.

817

:

I'm kind of fascinated by the

recent, development of, you know,

818

:

the, the reemergence of a program like

suits on Netflix, you know, posts.

819

:

I mean, like, what a fascinating thing

that's become, you know, what are

820

:

your, what are your thoughts on that?

821

:

And, uh, have you been

watching that pretty closely?

822

:

Ellen: Um, I have, well, first

of all, I love Suits when, when

823

:

it was on USA the first time.

824

:

yeah, I think I, you know, Netflix has an

incredible recommendation algorithm that

825

:

allows You know, allow shows to surface

at the right time to the right audience.

826

:

And I love any time that there's

a re emergence of a show.

827

:

I think it's amazing.

828

:

Do I wish it was re emerging on USA?

829

:

I do!

830

:

But, right now I went on and I can

find Shaws of Sunset on Netflix.

831

:

And I love it because it's,

it's our storytelling.

832

:

And I think that they don't try

to shy away from the bravo of it.

833

:

You know, but, yeah, it's, it's hard

to see our brand, our shows on another

834

:

Brian: Yeah.

835

:

Ellen: platform, but, you know,

it does give us a new audience for

836

:

them to discover Bravo and discover

USA and discover what we're about.

837

:

So, you know, it's interesting.

838

:

It's interesting.

839

:

John: Netflix someday, maybe I'll

be watching Suits and I'll see you

840

:

promote the next season of Real

841

:

Ellen: I just, I love that now

they're all doing ad supported

842

:

and they were just like, Peacock,

why are you going ad supported?

843

:

And we're like, you'll see.

844

:

John: Yeah.

845

:

Because everything's getting so

expensive, you're going to need

846

:

to have a lower priced tier.

847

:

That's one reason.

848

:

Ellen: Yeah.

849

:

Yeah.

850

:

Yeah.

851

:

Brian: Yeah.

852

:

You know, and it's just,

it's such a wild landscape.

853

:

I mean, you also have the kind of

reverse story where, Peacock has

854

:

the rights to the show Yellowstone

repeats and that's bringing a

855

:

lot of traffic into Peacock too.

856

:

So I

857

:

Ellen: Yeah, Yellowstone has been

great on Peacock and, you know, that's

858

:

also the wonderful thing about Peacock

is that you've got the new originals

859

:

and you've got a library of content.

860

:

You've got the office, you've got

Yellowstone, you've got an entire

861

:

library of Bravo, can't, can't say

it enough, an entire library of Bravo

862

:

John: Well, and what you're saying

is if someone subscribes to Peacock,

863

:

they get an entire library of Bravo?

864

:

Ellen: That's kind of what I'm saying.

865

:

John: Act now.

866

:

Operators are standing by.

867

:

Ellen: See, I'm a marketer.

868

:

I am.

869

:

John: We're here to help

you sell some shows.

870

:

Absolutely.

871

:

Ellen: Yeah.

872

:

Brian: one of the things that we like

to do on this podcast is really talk

873

:

a little bit about, you know, not just

kind of what you're doing now and where

874

:

you're going, but also like how you

got here and, you know, you've had an

875

:

amazing career and, the, the landscape

has changed tremendously, but, uh, we'd

876

:

love to kind of hear about, you know,

where are the big milestones for you that

877

:

kind of got you to where you are today?

878

:

Ellen: I started in media, but back

when the media agencies weren't media

879

:

agencies, they were just kind of

like these little entities that both

880

:

that that bought tonnage, really.

881

:

And it was a company called Vipmedia.

882

:

And I was there for about a year and

a half realizing that this wasn't

883

:

the heart of what I wanted to be

doing, but I was a media person.

884

:

I just kept kind of increasing

my, the size of the agency.

885

:

So I went from a media agency to a

full service, but small agency, called

886

:

Margiotis, Fertitta Weiss, now defunct.

887

:

And then I went larger and larger and,

I was able to really participate on

888

:

some great campaigns that weren't just

about, quote unquote, advertising.

889

:

When I got to Bozell, and

again, now defunct, so don't

890

:

try and find these agencies.

891

:

But when I got to Bozell, I was on

that milk campaign that you mentioned.

892

:

And that was the first time that I was

really doing 360 touch advertising,

893

:

where I understood that it's really

not just about the print dad and

894

:

the TV spot and the radio ad.

895

:

It's about, Every single touch point

of the consumer people had talked about

896

:

it and I always spouted it But I didn't

really understand it until I understood

897

:

until I got a hold of this Mill campaign

which was the first time I put out a book

898

:

about advertising And the first time we

had people touring and integrations from

899

:

PR and stuff like that And then while

I was working on the the mill campaign

900

:

there was You know, that was when the

big agencies were actually splitting

901

:

apart and you were getting these huge

strategic media houses that were coming to

902

:

life as well as the creative, strategic,

and they were becoming more boutique

903

:

y, than what it was in the combined.

904

:

And as that breakup was happening,

I was able to transfer from pure

905

:

advertising over to the brand side.

906

:

And I ended up going to Lifetime

to head up their consumer

907

:

marketing group, which was all.

908

:

Scripted and it was really

interesting and, um, I loved it.

909

:

And I was there for a number of years,

and while I was there, we were going

910

:

through times with, I learned about the

affiliates and the MVPs, you know, your

911

:

Comcast, your, spectrums and all those,

really important areas in, television.

912

:

And, my copywriter came in and

said, Hey, brought this new.

913

:

Network or revamped network.

914

:

She said, bravo.

915

:

Have you seen their stuff?

916

:

They're great.

917

:

And they're looking

for a head of consumer.

918

:

And I was like, I have seen their

stuff because they've We always

919

:

plastered the out of home in New York.

920

:

And I said, Oh, that's really interesting.

921

:

And I'm like, I don't, I don't have time.

922

:

I have so much to do.

923

:

I don't have time.

924

:

And she's just like, Cynthia

synopsis, just apply.

925

:

What's it going to do?

926

:

And I was like, all

right, I'll apply online.

927

:

And I applied online for

the head of consumer.

928

:

John: So all of those milestones

that Brian asked you about along

929

:

the way to get to where you are now.

930

:

Did you ever think you would be in

charge of setting the tone for a

931

:

really big portion of pop culture?

932

:

Because that's where you are now.

933

:

Ellen: did not, I did not.

934

:

And I have to say, I would

love to take all the credit

935

:

because I am due all the credit.

936

:

No, I'm just kidding.

937

:

But Bravo was built.

938

:

In a collaborative group of people.

939

:

It was there was not one person that

can take sole responsibility for Bravo.

940

:

It really was.

941

:

And it has been.

942

:

And it's one of the things I love most

about my job is that I know that whether

943

:

it's the head of press, whether it's

the head of Whether it's Frances Barak,

944

:

who is now the chairman of everything.

945

:

She's so wonderful.

946

:

I know that everyone will take

a moment and say, we have an

947

:

issue or we have an opportunity.

948

:

No matter who it is, I can call

someone and they'll step back and

949

:

I'll say, let's talk it through

and let's all get on board.

950

:

And that's how Bravo was built.

951

:

And Andy Coe.

952

:

Brian: I'd love to hear about the,

uh, what you guys have done with

953

:

the Oxygen Network and how you've

rebranded that in the True Crime

954

:

Ellen: Yeah.

955

:

Oxygen has been the little engine that

could, when we got, when we first got

956

:

oxygen, it was another woman's brand.

957

:

And remember I was coming off of

years at lifetime and we got it.

958

:

And what we started to recognize was

it is definitely a woman's brand,

959

:

but a general, a generalist or a

broad woman's brand, it is not.

960

:

There were too many places already that

had those securely, that audience secured.

961

:

And we took a step back and we said,

what are the two biggest shows on oxygen?

962

:

I, it was, and again, collaborative,

and we said, we have bad girls club.

963

:

I'm not sure if you know what that is,

but that was a show about bad girls.

964

:

Okay.

965

:

It was a show about bad girls.

966

:

And, um, it was interesting.

967

:

It was, um, it was a difficult

show because it was, you know,

968

:

you were watching it because

you couldn't believe it was OMG.

969

:

And we thought, what is the.

970

:

Expansion of that.

971

:

You know what I mean?

972

:

That level of OMG.

973

:

And that was just hard to

to kind of figure it out.

974

:

And then we also had snapped

women who snapped in crime.

975

:

And no matter where we put

it, no matter what we did with

976

:

it, people came and found it.

977

:

And, um, I wish it was me.

978

:

It wasn't me.

979

:

But someone came in from

the executive team and said,

980

:

Why don't we pivot to crime?

981

:

And we did a lot of research and

we did a lot of, um, audience

982

:

shifting and sifting to see, do we

have the shows that could do it?

983

:

And we started building

shows around true crime and

984

:

John: a big decision to shift the

personality of the network based on the

985

:

fact that you saw two shows catch fire.

986

:

Interesting.

987

:

Ellen: it was huge.

988

:

And here's what I will say, and

this is goes for all the brands.

989

:

We are not scared of risk.

990

:

We're just, it's gotta be smart.

991

:

We've got to have our ducks in the row

before we do something big like that.

992

:

And we, again, we saw the interest

and the excitement around snapped.

993

:

And it wasn't like we said we're

going to kill everything all together.

994

:

We still had bad girls on the

network because we knew we still

995

:

needed that audience and the

opportunity to convert them.

996

:

But we went in July of 2017, I

think was when we switched over.

997

:

I can't even remember.

998

:

I might get that wrong.

999

:

We switched over pretty, pretty full on.

:

00:46:22,717 --> 00:46:28,362

And we were able to We were able to

compete with the big guy, which is ID,

:

00:46:28,372 --> 00:46:33,712

and they're great for what they do, but

we were giving a quality of storytelling

:

00:46:33,712 --> 00:46:35,362

that you couldn't find anywhere else.

:

00:46:35,542 --> 00:46:38,592

So again, our content was a little

bit different from what you were

:

00:46:38,592 --> 00:46:40,612

getting in other crime places.

:

00:46:40,912 --> 00:46:45,102

We really look for quality in

things like a show about Aaron

:

00:46:45,102 --> 00:46:48,252

Hernandez and disappearance

of all these different people.

:

00:46:48,442 --> 00:46:52,352

We were very respectful and very

careful in our storytelling.

:

00:46:52,412 --> 00:46:54,222

So again, content, content, content,

:

00:46:54,617 --> 00:46:59,177

Brian: and it's definitely an area that

drives consumer engagement too, you know,

:

00:46:59,237 --> 00:47:04,977

and and different types of conversation

outside of just itself and, yeah,

:

00:47:05,252 --> 00:47:08,962

Ellen: Peacock also has done really

well with a lot of the oxygen content

:

00:47:08,962 --> 00:47:11,642

because crime is crime is good.

:

00:47:12,022 --> 00:47:15,592

No crime is an area that continues

to have a lot of viewership.

:

00:47:15,614 --> 00:47:16,144

Brian: that's awesome.

:

00:47:16,184 --> 00:47:18,134

Ellen: Crime is not good for

anybody listening to this podcast.

:

00:47:18,224 --> 00:47:18,544

Brian: Everything.

:

00:47:18,884 --> 00:47:20,314

Crime equals good.

:

00:47:20,484 --> 00:47:23,724

No,

:

00:47:24,609 --> 00:47:27,069

John: She is advocating making

really smart decisions based

:

00:47:27,069 --> 00:47:28,269

on seeing a crime show catch.

:

00:47:28,416 --> 00:47:30,406

It's an amazing bit of decision making.

:

00:47:30,624 --> 00:47:36,537

Ellen: Bravo also used one show as a, as a

guidepost to where we went with our brand.

:

00:47:36,597 --> 00:47:41,144

So, in:

little show called Queer Eye for the

:

00:47:41,144 --> 00:47:42,744

straight guy, later just Queer Eye.

:

00:47:42,811 --> 00:47:46,551

And Bravo saw in that a model.

:

00:47:46,622 --> 00:47:51,512

For the types of shows that we then

really leaned hard hard into there

:

00:47:51,512 --> 00:47:55,602

was food fashion beauty design

and pop culture and pop culture.

:

00:47:55,696 --> 00:48:00,669

I mean, that really, that really

launched a whole era of the brand.

:

00:48:00,669 --> 00:48:02,479

But you'll know we had project runway.

:

00:48:02,479 --> 00:48:03,529

We have top chef.

:

00:48:03,529 --> 00:48:06,019

we had beauty shows like sheer genius.

:

00:48:06,089 --> 00:48:09,549

We had real houses filled

the pop culture bucket.

:

00:48:09,579 --> 00:48:12,649

I mean, I can tell you who the guys

were on the query back in our day

:

00:48:12,706 --> 00:48:15,809

and yeah, And the buckets that they

filled in terms of our content.

:

00:48:15,862 --> 00:48:16,272

John: Amazing.

:

00:48:16,466 --> 00:48:20,046

Ellen: So it's great when you can

really look at a show and be able to

:

00:48:20,086 --> 00:48:22,096

take that show and move it forward.

:

00:48:22,149 --> 00:48:25,359

John: Well, Ellen, we are, we are

at time, and you've been really

:

00:48:25,359 --> 00:48:28,289

gracious with yours, and we were

thrilled for the conversation.

:

00:48:28,289 --> 00:48:31,539

We've probably talked to you for a long,

long time about navigating this crazy

:

00:48:31,569 --> 00:48:35,259

media ecosystem, but we love what you've

shared with us so far, so thank you.

:

00:48:35,359 --> 00:48:35,872

Ellen: My pleasure.

:

00:48:35,872 --> 00:48:36,312

Thank you.

:

00:48:36,381 --> 00:48:36,791

Brian: thank you.

:

00:48:36,929 --> 00:48:37,699

John: You have a great day.

:

00:48:37,699 --> 00:48:38,339

Thanks, Ellen.

:

00:48:38,432 --> 00:48:38,922

Ellen: Bye guys.

:

00:48:40,201 --> 00:48:42,368

John: Well, Ryan, it's hard

to say goodbye, isn't it?

:

00:48:42,435 --> 00:48:45,765

Brian: It's so hard to say goodbye.

:

00:48:47,285 --> 00:48:50,785

John: It's even harder to listen to

you sing than it's hard to say goodbye.

:

00:48:50,971 --> 00:48:54,575

it was great to have, Ellen,

she's got such a, such a

:

00:48:54,605 --> 00:48:56,565

complicated job, so, God bless her.

:

00:48:56,565 --> 00:48:57,725

It's a good thing she's really smart.

:

00:48:57,865 --> 00:49:02,948

all right, before we wrap up here,

uh, it's time for our, our usual Dear

:

00:49:02,948 --> 00:49:04,598

Hopelessly Unattainable Guest segment.

:

00:49:04,698 --> 00:49:06,878

Brian: Who were you bringing in

that we're not gonna bring in?

:

00:49:07,643 --> 00:49:09,363

John: Hey, now, Brian,

you're gonna like this one.

:

00:49:09,498 --> 00:49:09,888

Brian: Okay.

:

00:49:10,010 --> 00:49:15,693

John: Alright, dear Jason Kelsey,

as you know, we've asked giants

:

00:49:15,693 --> 00:49:20,233

from tech, media, music, and sports

to be our guest on Snap Decision.

:

00:49:20,283 --> 00:49:24,896

You're not only a giant human, you're a

giant in sports, media, and pop culture.

:

00:49:24,896 --> 00:49:29,190

Brian and I are massive Philly sports

fans, so your status as an Eagles football

:

00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:32,520

superstar is reason enough for us to

be really excited about you joining us.

:

00:49:32,636 --> 00:49:35,026

But now you're a podcasting legend too.

:

00:49:35,026 --> 00:49:37,926

With the New Heights podcast

you produce with Taylor Swift's

:

00:49:37,946 --> 00:49:39,243

boyfriend, Travis Kelsey.

:

00:49:39,346 --> 00:49:44,036

Note, this is not a cheap ploy to

get to Taylor, one of our previous

:

00:49:44,126 --> 00:49:45,566

Hopelessly Unattainable guests.

:

00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,110

Uh, dude, you're a legend.

:

00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,110

You're a surefire first ballot

Hall of Famer, the greatest

:

00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:52,920

center in Eagles history.

:

00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,260

You've got a bright future in

broadcasting awaiting you if you want it.

:

00:49:56,290 --> 00:49:58,120

Most important, you're

a man of the people.

:

00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:03,430

Never has an athlete so much

love unanimously among us

:

00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,310

fickle, ruthless Philly fans.

:

00:50:05,370 --> 00:50:06,280

And it's not just us.

:

00:50:06,460 --> 00:50:10,870

You won over a hostile crowd with

your shirtless beer chugging antics

:

00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:14,703

during your brother's recent playoff

win on the road in Frozen Buffalo.

:

00:50:14,703 --> 00:50:19,906

It is completely implausible that an

Eagles star player could celebrate

:

00:50:19,956 --> 00:50:24,716

a Chiefs touchdown amid thousands

of angry Bills fans, but you did.

:

00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:25,870

Jason, come join us.

:

00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:26,910

Teach us podcasting.

:

00:50:26,966 --> 00:50:28,626

Take off your shirt and

chug a beer with us.

:

00:50:28,721 --> 00:50:30,128

Your pals, John and Brian.

:

00:50:30,336 --> 00:50:33,626

Brian: I mean, John, I I think

he's I think we can get him.

:

00:50:33,901 --> 00:50:34,791

John: I agree.

:

00:50:34,896 --> 00:50:35,766

Brian: of the people.

:

00:50:35,766 --> 00:50:37,006

Why wouldn't he want to talk to us?

:

00:50:37,071 --> 00:50:40,181

John: He goes to the same McDonald's

and Brewmall every day, apparently.

:

00:50:40,181 --> 00:50:42,301

We could just camp out there

and just, you know, picket him.

:

00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:43,330

Brian: That's a good idea.

:

00:50:43,330 --> 00:50:44,470

We'll buy him some nuggets.

:

00:50:45,865 --> 00:50:48,295

John: the first time we actually take

some action about getting one of these.

:

00:50:48,595 --> 00:50:50,055

Hope we'll see unattainable guests.

:

00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:52,660

Brian: We gotta, we gotta act on these.

:

00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:53,670

He's close.

:

00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:55,210

He's in our city.

:

00:50:55,325 --> 00:50:57,415

John: This feels like a,

like a gettable thing.

:

00:50:57,475 --> 00:50:57,805

Yeah.

:

00:50:57,930 --> 00:50:59,800

I'm going to put this on your to do list.

:

00:50:59,901 --> 00:51:00,331

Brian: Okay.

:

00:51:00,331 --> 00:51:00,741

I'm on it.

:

00:51:00,898 --> 00:51:01,168

John: all right.

:

00:51:01,168 --> 00:51:02,048

That's all I got, sir.

:

00:51:02,373 --> 00:51:02,693

Brian: right.

:

00:51:02,693 --> 00:51:02,973

All right.

:

00:51:03,053 --> 00:51:03,493

Nice.

:

00:51:03,523 --> 00:51:05,033

Nice, uh, getting back together.

:

00:51:05,318 --> 00:51:05,788

John: Yes.

:

00:51:05,988 --> 00:51:10,638

Happy:

forward to our next episode.

:

00:51:10,638 --> 00:51:11,268

Brian: See ya.

:

00:51:11,268 --> 00:51:11,808

John: Bye.

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About the Podcast

Snap Decisions
Snap Decisions gives you a behind-the-scenes look at the key decisions that shape how products, brands and personalities present themselves to the world. Two savvy marketers and Monday morning quarterbacks, Brian Marks and John Young, offer their analysis of marketing and tech news and interview fascinating people who make big decisions. Learn about unique journeys and how pivotal moments drove success.

About your hosts

John Young

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Growing up as the kid who actually enjoyed watching ads as much as classic TV reruns, it’s no surprise John Young ended up as a brand marketing executive with a passion for crafting how organizations show up in the world. He’s an entrepreneurial-minded chief marketing officer with extensive experience building stronger brands and growing businesses.

Working with companies ranging from startups to Fortune 30, he has delivered impactful marketing experiences that resonate with customers, tackled thorny communications and positioning challenges, and led large-scale change initiatives. John has driven results and executed award-winning programs for companies across various industries.

A two-time founder, John currently leads a marketing advisory firm, J-Fly Partners, where he helps growing businesses with brand positioning strategies, marketing plans, pitch decks to investors and customers, communications, product launch plans, PR, and performance media campaigns.

Brian Marks

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Brian’s spent more than 20 years building and activating digital marketing and communications strategies for diverse brands across financial services, food, education and sports. His leadership has led strategic growth and digital transformation through innovative marketing solutions. With a strong focus on strategy, planning, content creation, and customer experience, he’s delivered results that elevate brands and enhance engagement. His expertise spans several key areas: Strategy + Planning, Content + CX, Technology + Enablement, and Leadership + Mentoring.

Marketing jargon aside, he’s passionate about:

-> relentlessly finding the right solution that makes the right difference at the right time
-> saying Yes when others only say No and saying No when others only say Yes
-> bringing people together to accomplish something bigger than ourselves
-> enjoying every moment
-> Philadelphia