Everything’s Digital. Unless it’s Handwritten: Cue Card Wally, Part 1

John: 00:00:05

Hello, Brian.

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How are you?

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Brian: Hey John,

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John: What's going on?

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Brian: welcome back for another one.

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John: Hey, Brian, before we get started,

I want to ask you a random question.

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Brian: Yeah.

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John: Do you have a favorite word?

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Brian: there's definitely a word that

I wear out too much, which is amazing.

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Everything is amazing.

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But definitely overuse that.

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But I like the word amazing.

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John: Amazing.

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Brian: I'm gonna stand by it.

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John: All right, good.

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One of my favorite words is juxtaposition.

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Brian: Oh,

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John: I think it's fun to say.

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It's fun to spell.

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There's an X in it.

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And I really love the meaning and more

importantly the concept behind it, right?

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What it stands for.

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And I share this because I was

thinking about this episode

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we've got lined up today.

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It is the ultimate juxtaposition

of something I want to talk to

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you about that's really tech.

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Very digital.

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Brian: Yeah, one end.

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John: And then our guest is

really analog in a delightful way.

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And I just, I love that

concept of juxtaposition.

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So with that, I'm going to dive in.

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You ready?

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Brian: Let's do it.

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John: All right.

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Last month.

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A company called Humane unveiled

their new AI pin, and they did it

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through a 10 minute demo video,

which I have a lot of comments on

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later if you want to hear them.

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this company was founded in 2018 by

a bunch of former Apple employees,

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including a husband and wife.

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Design and engineering team.

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You'll note not a marketer

in the co-funding team, which

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is evidenced by the video.

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We'll come back to that.

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They've raised $230 million in funding.

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And, they have an $850 million valuation,

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Brian: Hmm.

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John: they, and they've

never shipped a product.

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They haven't sold a thing yet.

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But they're worth 850 million.

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Brian: Interesting.

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John: Interesting world we live in,

so Brian, , when Humane came out with

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that AI pin, did you hear about that

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Brian: Yeah.

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I heard some rumblings about that.

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John: Okay.

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All right.

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And I know they've been, you know,

in stealth mode for a few years

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now, and there's been a lot of

chatter about it in tech circles.

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I was not particularly aware of it.

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But anyway, I'm going to

give my oversimplified rundown

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of what this thing is.

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Okay?

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It's a, it's a wearable device that does

a lot of what your phone does, but is not

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intended to replace your phone just yet.

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so it clips onto your

clothing like jewelry.

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And it's fixed in place with a magnet

that is also a battery booster.

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So that lasts all day.

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And if you have another booster, you

can hot swap that and just keep going.

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It's tied to the T Mobile network.

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You can activate it with your voice, just

like Alexa or Siri, touch or gesture.

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And it's got this laser projector

that puts what they call laser

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ink under your palm, right?

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So, You don't have a screen anymore.

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This is a screenless device.

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So you can project onto your palm and use

those gestures to change things like tilt

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to go fast forward through your music.

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You can close your hand to go to

the home screen, do some other

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things to move between weather

and time and stuff like that.

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It has a hands free camera, obviously.

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Basically there's a body cam.

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It has a speaker that's supposed to

be some sort of fancy speaker that

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creates a little bubble of sound.

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It has a trust light that comes on

that indicates when it's activated.

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So if you and I are talking and I'm

wearing this AI pin, you can see when

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it's active and recording or something.

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So there's a transparency play there.

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No apps, right?

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So unlike a phone, it's not popular

with apps but it does run artificial

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intelligence on its operating system.

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You can ask questions, and

it'll get answers from the

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web just like ChatGPT does,

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?

So, , you get this AI power review of results like, Hey,

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when's the next solar eclipse?

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That's one of the examples

they gave in their demo.

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Like Siri, you can have

it send or read messages.

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The AI functionality can also

summarize and synthesize.

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And that's where things

get really interesting.

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So let's say I come out of a meeting.

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I can say, catch me up.

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And it'll summarize stuff that's

in my chats or emails, like,

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Brian sent you feedback on your

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stupid PowerPoint.

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Or I could ask, what's the

gate code that Wally sent me?

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Or, what should I get my

daughter for her birthday?

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And I might recommend something from

a note that I made five months ago.

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The thing that blew my mind in

the demo is this idea of real time

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translations of languages, so it auto

detects the language is being spoken

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to me and responds in a voice in

that language that matches my voice.

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It can recognize objects and provide

information like in the demo they

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said how much protein is in this

handful of almonds and you're looking

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at the handful of almonds and it

tells you how much proteins in there.

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So this thing costs 699.

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Plus 24 a month to have the network.

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So Brian, reaction.

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Real quick, what's your thought on that?

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Brian: I'm trying to figure out

like what's the end game and all

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this stuff, you know, whether this

is right or it's wrong, AI and.

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How we get there is not necessarily

going to be where we end up.

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So, I think it's natural to get

some things in play that pull

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you off of a mobile device,

but, it's definitely strange.

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That's for sure.

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John: Yeah, well, I was curious

about the reaction, so of course the

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internet did what the internet does.

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Brian: Internet does what it does.

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John: you know, a lot of people just

kind of took shots at some of the

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little stuff in the demo, like, you

know, when's the next solar eclipse

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that gave incorrect information.

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People complained that the photos

looked kind of meh and were

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taken in really easy conditions.

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More substantively, , a common reaction

seemed to be that it's basically a mid

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range Android phone that pins to your

clothing but doesn't have a screen.

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With a chat GTP assistant.

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So you can do most of this stuff

with any device and the chat GPT

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app, plus whatever other apps

you, you know, keep on your phone.

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One reviewer questioned kind of a

little bit where you were going.

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It's like, what are you

supposed to do with this thing?

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Talk to it like an advanced version

of Siri or Google Assistant?

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And my answer is yeah.

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Because here's my first observation.

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One, holy shit, AI advancements

are happening so fast.

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It's That we can now have a device

that costs less than an That

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does some Star Trek level stuff.

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And, and first, most people

didn't even hear about it.

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I would argue.

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And secondly, most of you who did

hear about it are really tech savvy.

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And kind of took a big dump on it.

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And, the tech elite of making sure they

have all the latest, and greatest apps

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and can use them as a collection to do

lots of what Humane aggregated onto one

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simple platform without a bunch of apps.

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this is clearly not the end

state for wearable tech, right?

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This is a step.

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But wow, we're getting close to

devices that don't rely on me jamming

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a cell phone in my front pocket.

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Or putting it down and losing it,

or whatever other scenario that kind

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of gives you fits with carrying a

phone around all day, every day.

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Alright, so Brian, my snap decision.

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Brian: Yeah.

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John: Are we headed toward a

shift from phones and their

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screens, to wearable technology?

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And if so, how soon?

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Brian: It's imminent.

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Mean, like a watch is wearable

and this thing is a wearable.

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but, it needs to get to a place where

it's, it's not even like something you

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have to put on every day, you know?

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And I don't know how that gets there,

but there's some pretty crazy end

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states of chip implants and things

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John: aha, well that's where

I was going to go, yeah.

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Because my take is I don't know,

whether it's a mini step or a big

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step, but the end state is exactly

where you were just going, I think.

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Implantable technology.

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Brian: yeah, I mean, I'm afraid to

say that, but I think, you know,

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some people are going to go for that

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John: I think that'll take root

faster than even smartphone adoption.

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You get the right implantable thing

in your ear or a contact lens or

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whatever that gets rid of all of the

baggage of all the other, like the, the

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snap glasses and the Google glasses.

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And man, I think that's

when things accelerate.

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Brian: Yeah.

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There's definitely a

lot of privacy concerns.

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The trust light on, on this device is

good for the people that are around

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you, but,, the backlash against Google

glass about 10 years ago, it was

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really creating something that there

wasn't necessarily a market for yet

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and, and people weren't ready for it.

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And I don't know that people are

necessarily ready for this thing yet,

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but, I'm certainly looking for ways to

access stuff without having to carry it.

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John: Yeah.

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So the carrying thing and in those

10 years that you just mentioned,

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you know, since Google glass came

out, I have become pretty weary of

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constantly looking at a little screen.

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Brian: yeah,

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John: It's not great.

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Brian: It's not, and the, the

phones are getting bigger,

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so that doesn't help either.

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So.

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Coming up with new ways for people to

access information, I think is good.

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It's just, how that handles itself in

the world and starts recording content

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and how that can be used against people.

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I mean, that's like real serious stuff.

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So it's, it's really interesting

and it's really scary.

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John: Yeah, well, I'll give Humane a

lot of credit for taking a pretty bold

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step here, and , this is a bit of a tech

trend that's out there is more humane

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technology, and I think what that means

is, and Humane's bringing it to life

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here with this device is, you know,

where you aren't so . Encumbered by the

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technology where you don't have to have

a screen you're looking at all the time

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where you don't have to be, touching and

scrolling through a device all the time

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that you aren't sucked into apps that

manipulate you into continued consumption.

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so I think there is

something positive to that.

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We'll see where it goes, but, I

give them some credit and I was

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in many ways blown away by some of

the technology, even if some of the

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technologists out there were uninspired.

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So

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Brian: Well, I think, some of these types

of companies are going to have to be

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sacrificial lambs . When you look back at

the Google Google glass launch was that

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they put it in the hands of all the nerdy

technologists that bombed, they gave it

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to people who would wear it and use it.

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And and that really blew up in their face.

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So I don't know.

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I mean, the demo is very , kind of cold

and, it's more of a sterile environment.

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Definitely it doesn't like

inspire a cultural revolution.

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John: No, I won't go deep on this,

but , I looked at the video, I was like,

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wow, it's just like a parade of features.

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Brian: yeah,

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John: And at no point did I hear them

talk about, the benefit and , some

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of the life changing experiences

that it could create for you.

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Like that translation

thing was kind of buried.

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And to me, it was a mind blowing moment.

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So if I'm going on a trip to Spain

and I don't speak Spanish and I

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want to be able to get around real

easily, this is amazing, you know?

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And, and I think that they, Just

really skipped over those emotional

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human connections that some of

these features could enable.

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just skipped over the real,

day to day, true benefits,

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Brian: And coming from people, you know,

I know they're not marketers, but the,

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the people from Apple should know better.

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John: Yeah, because they're

the ultimate about like, what's

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the benefit of this thing?

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Brian: Yeah.

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John: You know, we've got all this new

tech, features are great, it's great to

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enumerate features when you're going up

against an established competitive set,

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, where people know what this thing is.

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Trying to sell you a TV better

be talking about 4k features,

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That's kind of table stakes.

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Talk about something completely

new that people don't have

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any frame of reference for.

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I mean, you better get

into a real tangible.

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Everyday benefit or set of benefits.

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Otherwise these features

just going to watch over.

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I mean, here's how

they started the video.

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It's a standalone device and software

platform built from the ground up for AI.

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It comes in three colorways.

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You got Eclipse, Lunar, and Equinox.

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There's two pieces, computer

and a battery backup.

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I'm like, Jesus, are you reading the side

of the Microsoft Windows side panel?

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System requirements coming next?

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What are you doing?

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Brian: Yeah.

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No, that's exactly what it felt like.

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And we all have phones, we have our

watches and this didn't make me

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run and want to remove those things.

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So

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John: Good observation.

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Yeah.

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Interesting.

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Fascinating.

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Didn't make me want to

run out and get one.

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Brian: And they didn't even seem

that excited about it either.

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John: Yeah, they were.

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Yeah, it was a little sleepy.

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You know, if you aren't into this stuff,

bring a blanket and some chamomile

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tea and set up for a nap, because it

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Brian: I mean, the only thing

that kept me awake is it's shining

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that light in my eyes, I guess,

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John: And hey, brands, when you put your

demo video on YouTube only, not on your

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website, You shouldn't be surprised when

at the end your launch video about your

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amazing new thing that YouTube serves

up, why humane AI pin won't work at all.

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You know, that's the next

video recommended to me.

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I'm like, well, point counterpoint.

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Brian: Yikes.

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that right up.

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We'll get off our marketing high horses.

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But thank you for indulging

me in this conversation about,

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, something super techie and nerdy.

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All right.

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John, I'm excited for today's guest,

but I have a question for you first.

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John: Oh.

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Brian: Did you ever wonder what would

have happened in your life if it would

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have taken a small step sideways and

how different it could have been?

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Let me tell you a quick story.

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So back in high school in media classes,

I was terrible using the teleprompter.

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thing is awful.

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I was brutal.

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I ended up never taking

being on camera seriously.

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Little did I know that maybe

there could have been another way.

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Well, we're going to talk about

that other way today, John.

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Our guest has spent over 30

years managing the cue card

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operations at Saturday Night Live.

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Yes.

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SNL uses cue cards.

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From day one through today, in an era

where we talk about brain chip implants,

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machines over humans, and digital,

digital, digital, this man has helped

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support the way we see live television.

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Which, as we have long discussed, is the

last rodeo for gathering large groups

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of people together for moments of time.

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Aside from

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SNL, you might know him from late night

with Seth Meyers, where he frequently

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appears on camera and sketches playing

foiled assess bits behind the camera.

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During the pandemic, he also

started a fun private business.

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Personalizing cue cards for

fans across the country.

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His real name is Chris Feresten,

but you may know him as Wally.

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Cue card Wally, welcome!

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Wally: Thank you so much

for having me, guys.

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That was a very good intro.

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I liked it.

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I liked it a lot.

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Very thorough.

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John: We like that you're here.

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Thank you

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Wally: done your research.

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You've done your research.

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I like it.

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John: You know, this is probably, probably

the most fun research we can do is

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watching clips of you on camera with Seth

Meyers and any number of amazing, cast

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members and guests on Saturday Night Live.

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So we were thrilled to talk to

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you.

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Brian: I actually stumbled upon a, a

clip of Cindy Crawford walking through

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Saturday Night Live in 1994 and all

of a sudden, you stumbled across them.

328

: 00:14:05

Wally: Well, a very

329

: 00:14:06

young Wally stumbled.

330

: 00:14:08

The whole world ahead of him, you know.

331

: 00:14:10

And, and 33 years later, I'm still there.

332

: 00:14:14

John: And you and Cindy

are still married, yes?

333

: 00:14:16

Wally: Unfortunately, we had a,

we had a, we had a falling out.

334

: 00:14:19

It's funny, I saw, Julia Stiles

was on on SNL this weekend.

335

: 00:14:23

And she hosted, I don't

know how many years ago.

336

: 00:14:25

It just, it all blends into me.

337

: 00:14:27

But she, she came up to

me, she gave me a big hug.

338

: 00:14:29

And I had seen her like 10

years ago, like at a cast party.

339

: 00:14:32

She came up, she came up to me

with her, Maybe her husband or a

340

: 00:14:35

boyfriend and was just talking.

341

: 00:14:36

She was just hanging out with me and

she's like, Hey, what's been going on?

342

: 00:14:39

And what's going on?

343

: 00:14:39

And where's the after party?

344

: 00:14:40

We'd love to come.

345

: 00:14:41

And so I hung out with them and with the

party and I hadn't seen her since then.

346

: 00:14:44

And it's just wild.

347

: 00:14:45

And she was like, you're still here.

348

: 00:14:46

And I go, I'm still here.

349

: 00:14:47

And that's not a bad thing.

350

: 00:14:49

It's a good thing that I'm still there.

351

: 00:14:50

As you

352

: 00:14:51

Brian: yeah,

353

: 00:14:51

Wally: Cue cards are still a thing.

354

: 00:14:52

Brian: I mean, the whole coming and

going of generations of people has

355

: 00:14:56

got to be the most fascinating thing,

356

: 00:14:58

Wally: Fascinating.

357

: 00:14:59

So doing it for so long.

358

: 00:15:00

Here's the thing I'm running into now,

which is cool and yet a little scary

359

: 00:15:05

for like, because I don't consider

myself old, but when like Jason Momoa

360

: 00:15:09

hosts, and he tells me stories about

grabbing this little black and white TV

361

: 00:15:13

when he was little, like, 11 or 12 and

going onto his porch and watching Chris

362

: 00:15:18

Farley on Saturday Night Live and, and

I go, I was holding those cards for him

363

: 00:15:23

John: Wow.

364

: 00:15:24

Wally: freaks out like, he's like, what?

365

: 00:15:26

So

366

: 00:15:27

I'm starting to get hosts

that were watching SNL when

367

: 00:15:30

I started and that's scary.

368

: 00:15:32

That's a little scary,

369

: 00:15:33

Brian: right?

370

: 00:15:33

And they're, they're, they're

in their forties and they

371

: 00:15:35

were little tiny kids then.

372

: 00:15:37

Yeah,

373

: 00:15:37

Wally: Exactly,

374

: 00:15:38

John: Well, while, while you're, you

must have so many stories and we want

375

: 00:15:41

to dive into them, you know, first I'd

love to set the stage for folks who

376

: 00:15:44

might not know who you are, which is

unfortunate, but you just take us through

377

: 00:15:48

sort of like, you know, what you do,

like what happens in a week of getting

378

: 00:15:53

ready and then broadcasting Saturday

night live and or Seth Meyers, take us

379

: 00:15:57

through what you do, how it works and,

and, and let people know what's, what,

380

: 00:16:01

what it's like to be the director of cue

card operations, whoever your title is.

381

: 00:16:05

Wally: It's here's the deal.

382

: 00:16:07

Working on Seth Meyers compared

to SNL is like a day off for me.

383

: 00:16:10

You know, it's not because it's not live.

384

: 00:16:13

Okay, the live factor changes everything.

385

: 00:16:15

For Saturday Night Live, monday,

they have a meeting with the host.

386

: 00:16:19

Tuesday, the writer's write.

387

: 00:16:20

Wednesday, there's a read through.

388

: 00:16:22

So we don't start

rehearsing until Thursday.

389

: 00:16:24

So I'll have like three or

four people on Thursday.

390

: 00:16:27

That's our light day.

391

: 00:16:27

We'll have maybe five sketches.

392

: 00:16:29

And those three or four people will

print up those five sketches on cards.

393

: 00:16:32

The script department

gives us the scripts.

394

: 00:16:34

We write them on cards.

395

: 00:16:35

We rewrite them before

we even rehearse them.

396

: 00:16:37

So we get them on cards and then

they sometimes totally rewrite them.

397

: 00:16:40

And I'm not doing any of that stuff.

398

: 00:16:41

I'm I'm, I'm too old for that.

399

: 00:16:43

I don't have, you know, the, my arm,

my arm strength is not, is not there.

400

: 00:16:46

So I hire these, I hire these younger kids

that do it and I just block the sketches.

401

: 00:16:50

So we'll.

402

: 00:16:51

Block the sketches, we'll

do it on camera three times.

403

: 00:16:53

And again, it's the easier sketches.

404

: 00:16:54

We want to, we want to lull

the host into a like like, Oh,

405

: 00:16:57

this is going to be not so bad.

406

: 00:16:59

And then Friday we hit him with

pre tapes and, and these really

407

: 00:17:02

hard sketches and blocking.

408

: 00:17:03

And they're, they're working until

four in the morning sometimes.

409

: 00:17:06

And it's really hard.

410

: 00:17:07

So we do that on Friday.

411

: 00:17:08

We don't, we don't make copies of

any of the sketches because it's

412

: 00:17:10

going to change again on Friday.

413

: 00:17:12

On Friday, we get.

414

: 00:17:14

Either six or seven more sketches

including the cold open and the monologue

415

: 00:17:18

and we put those on cards as well In

that time the guys were also getting

416

: 00:17:22

changes from yesterday that the script

department brings to us . The sketch has

417

: 00:17:25

changed constantly up until the show is

running So we're constantly making changes

418

: 00:17:29

while i'm blocking i'll let them know.

419

: 00:17:31

Hey, we need three sets of this card.

420

: 00:17:33

So one sketch Would have a center

set of cards and then two side sets

421

: 00:17:37

of cards normally, but sometimes

it's set up where I need a fourth

422

: 00:17:40

set, or maybe I only need two sets.

423

: 00:17:42

So I'm determining that while also

working with the host, getting them

424

: 00:17:45

comfortable with cards, if they're

not already comfortable with cards.

425

: 00:17:48

So that goes on all day Thursday

all day Friday we block block

426

: 00:17:51

block rehearsal 12 o'clock 1230 at

night, we go home we have to be in

427

: 00:17:54

like around 11 or 12 the next day.

428

: 00:17:56

And again, make more

changes on the sketches.

429

: 00:17:59

We read all the sketches to make

sure we haven't made any mistakes.

430

: 00:18:02

And then we start, we have a run through

where we run through with the actors

431

: 00:18:06

in costume in real time, hopefully.

432

: 00:18:08

And then we make more changes we do

the dress rehearsal from 8 to 10.

433

: 00:18:12

We cut a couple of sketches.

434

: 00:18:13

Change other sketches and then we do the

live show at: 1130

435

: 00:18:17

usually until midnight We're good And

then if the show's running long and they

436

: 00:18:21

want to get a sketch in We'll do changes

sometimes two minutes before that last

437

: 00:18:25

sketch is going to air and that's where

it gets a little hairy But fun and that's

438

: 00:18:28

where some snap decisions could come in.

439

: 00:18:30

Which is what I was hired for

and in charge of, I was good at

440

: 00:18:35

not panicking and making really

good decisions under pressure.

441

: 00:18:38

And that's kind of why I got how I

got elevated to run a show only three

442

: 00:18:41

years into me being a cue card guy.

443

: 00:18:43

So that's kind of it in a nutshell.

444

: 00:18:44

John: Wow.

445

: 00:18:45

So you pack basically a 60 hour

work week into about three days,

446

: 00:18:49

Wally: Yeah, you know, when I

started and I was, and I was, I was

447

: 00:18:52

the first one in the last one out.

448

: 00:18:53

It was, I was in it sometime, you

know,: 1030

449

: 00:18:57

then at 1030 on Friday and out at

midnight, one o'clock sometimes, and

450

: 00:19:01

then Saturday is, you know, 11 to one.

451

: 00:19:03

So, yeah, I was packing it

a lot, but I was younger.

452

: 00:19:05

Now I don't do it.

453

: 00:19:05

I kind of go in late and if I can

leave early, I try to leave early

454

: 00:19:09

if I can, but yeah, it's a lot of

work in a condensed period of time.

455

: 00:19:12

Brian: Wow.

456

: 00:19:12

And so who's your like

source of the truth?

457

: 00:19:15

So like in marketing teams, like we,

when when people that are doing all the,

458

: 00:19:19

publishing of work versus the people that

are creating the work, you know, we try

459

: 00:19:22

to have a single source of the truth.

460

: 00:19:24

Do you have like a single source of

the truth where you're dealing with one

461

: 00:19:26

Wally: a really good question.

462

: 00:19:27

It's a really, really good question.

463

: 00:19:29

We get changes and only do changes

from the script department.

464

: 00:19:33

Okay.

465

: 00:19:33

So if a writer comes down and says,

Hey, I need to change this, this, this,

466

: 00:19:37

and this, we say, if, if it's like a,

like a normal rehearsal day, we say,

467

: 00:19:41

you're going to, if it's a new right, we

have to go to script, give the script.

468

: 00:19:43

And then we get them because if

they give them to us and they

469

: 00:19:46

forget to give them to the director

or a script, cause the script.

470

: 00:19:49

You know, the script person, people give

them to the director, they give them

471

: 00:19:51

to the actors, they give them to us.

472

: 00:19:53

There's a system that's at work.

473

: 00:19:54

If the writers come and say, I want

to change this, I want to change that.

474

: 00:19:57

We won't take it unless they say, it's

really small, I want to get it in before

475

: 00:20:01

we rehearse it, and I'm going to go right

to the script department after this.

476

: 00:20:04

So, I always check on that, but yeah,

it's officially coming from script,

477

: 00:20:08

or we try not to do it because that's

where it can get, we have the changes

478

: 00:20:12

and the director doesn't, so it

doesn't, you know, they don't know.

479

: 00:20:14

John: So is one of those snap decisions

and kind of like grace under pressure

480

: 00:20:18

moments when, you know, a really well

known, really seasoned writer comes

481

: 00:20:22

to you and wants to do something and

you're like, sorry buddy, you gotta

482

: 00:20:26

go through the chain of command.

483

: 00:20:27

Wally: Yeah.

484

: 00:20:27

Sometimes I have to do that.

485

: 00:20:28

But there is a system and

they're told the system.

486

: 00:20:30

So it pretty much, it

really works that way.

487

: 00:20:33

I, like I said, unless it's

something like, Hey, we want to get

488

: 00:20:35

these on for rehearsal real quick.

489

: 00:20:37

We're going to give them to you.

490

: 00:20:38

And then a lot of times we'll put

changes is on cards from the writer

491

: 00:20:40

and the script department will come

down and get them at the same time.

492

: 00:20:43

So I know that it's, we're doing

the changes that they're going to be

493

: 00:20:46

distributing, you know, after we do them.

494

: 00:20:48

They know the system and what we

also also do we use the writers

495

: 00:20:51

as a, as a as a double check to

make sure we made the changes.

496

: 00:20:54

Right.

497

: 00:20:55

So we'll do changes.

498

: 00:20:56

And then the writer will come down and

check the cards to make sure we did them

499

: 00:20:59

like they want them to do that's like

as a double constantly double checking

500

: 00:21:03

ourselves because of the likeness of it

to make sure we did everything right.

501

: 00:21:06

Brian: the writers are working

with the cast or they work

502

: 00:21:08

with the script department with

the writer or the actors or

503

: 00:21:11

Wally: They work with the cast, they

work with the script department,

504

: 00:21:13

they work with the director.

505

: 00:21:14

When you write a sketch,

you also produce it.

506

: 00:21:17

They give them producing

you know, over it.

507

: 00:21:18

So you're basically, if you write

a sketch, you're in charge of that.

508

: 00:21:21

You pick the wardrobe, you pick how

the sketch set's They do everything,

509

: 00:21:26

John: oh wow.

510

: 00:21:26

All right, so, so it sounds like this is

a pretty clear process and Brian, it is

511

: 00:21:31

a good question because as he's talking,

you're probably like, we definitely hear

512

: 00:21:34

some similarities between the way we run

marketing projects, but I got to ask.

513

: 00:21:39

What's the biggest, what's the biggest

name that you kind of had to push

514

: 00:21:42

back on and be like, sorry, buddy.

515

: 00:21:44

Can't do that.

516

: 00:21:45

Wally: I don't know if that's ever, I

mean, Alec Baldwin changes a lot of stuff.

517

: 00:21:50

And if

518

: 00:21:51

it was like when he was doing Trump um,

it's just one set of cards, him reading

519

: 00:21:55

the camera usually, you know what I mean?

520

: 00:21:57

And if he wants to change

a word here or there.

521

: 00:21:59

It's fine because it's only one,

it's usually one camera shooting him.

522

: 00:22:02

You know what I mean?

523

: 00:22:03

It's not going to screw up the

director if it's an internal change.

524

: 00:22:05

Steve Higgins is like the liaison

between the, between the cast and the

525

: 00:22:09

host and the writers and stuff like that.

526

: 00:22:10

So, he would always be there too.

527

: 00:22:12

And I would be like, okay to make this?

528

: 00:22:14

He's like, yeah, just make it, it's

internal, don't worry about it.

529

: 00:22:15

He's kind of, he's making a snap.

530

: 00:22:17

Judgment that this is fine.

531

: 00:22:18

It's not going to screw up the director.

532

: 00:22:20

It's internal.

533

: 00:22:21

It's not going to affect any cuts that

they might have So, you know, he's kind

534

: 00:22:24

of deciding that and say go ahead do

it do it because it's still yeah It's

535

: 00:22:27

still like I shouldn't be doing this.

536

: 00:22:29

But you know again, it's al baldwin.

537

: 00:22:31

He's playing trump He's gonna do

what he wants to do, you know, so

538

: 00:22:33

i'm help i'm there to help them out

539

: 00:22:35

John: well that and whatever

Trump did that day is probably

540

: 00:22:36

going to influence something too.

541

: 00:22:38

Wally: Yeah Yeah,

542

: 00:22:39

Brian: I'm sure that time between

sketch and, the live show is

543

: 00:22:41

just absolute chaos, right?

544

: 00:22:43

Because that's where

things are still changing.

545

: 00:22:45

Wally: so, so here's so it's funny.

546

: 00:22:47

I've been there 33 years and they don't

change a lot of the, of the systems

547

: 00:22:50

because there's always been that way.

548

: 00:22:51

And some of it's to a fault, like

they should change things because

549

: 00:22:55

things have changed and you know,

like they still the writers don't go

550

: 00:22:58

into writing on Tuesday night till

five or six o'clock and they write.

551

: 00:23:01

Through the morning because of

the cocaine days of the early

552

: 00:23:04

seventies writers, you know, so,

and they just never changed that.

553

: 00:23:07

Like they could come in at 11 and write

all their stuff until 11 or 12 and

554

: 00:23:11

go home and get a good night's sleep.

555

: 00:23:12

It's just

556

: 00:23:13

always been, you know, so

557

: 00:23:15

Brian: it's part of the lore.

558

: 00:23:16

Wally: keep it that way.

559

: 00:23:17

So the way it used to be was.

560

: 00:23:19

Script department, this girl, Claire,

would bring the changes down between

561

: 00:23:22

dress and air, and she'd usually get,

hopefully she'd get there around 11,

562

: 00:23:26

with changes, with all these changes,

and then we'd furiously start doing

563

: 00:23:30

them, get the cold open, because

the cold open is coming at: 1130

564

: 00:23:33

Sometimes she wouldn't get down

to: 1110

565

: 00:23:36

it got really hairy and scary,

566

: 00:23:37

okay?

567

: 00:23:38

So I went to the script department and I

said, Hey when do you guys have changes?

568

: 00:23:42

They're like, Oh, we start, we

get them during dress rehearsal

569

: 00:23:44

while dress for us is going on.

570

: 00:23:46

And I was like, could

you give us those early?

571

: 00:23:49

And then you can come down and you

can check our changes and they were

572

: 00:23:51

like, yeah, I don't see why not.

573

: 00:23:53

And it changed everything.

574

: 00:23:54

We get changes now during dress

rehearsal and while dress rehearsal

575

: 00:23:56

is going on, sometimes we'll

get called open late, like 11.

576

: 00:23:59

05, but you know, we split it up.

577

: 00:24:00

We have, we have these systems that

work on it, but it changed everything.

578

: 00:24:03

It went from chaos to reasonable, you

know, still hard work, but reasonable.

579

: 00:24:08

John: So what you just, you just

mentioned a minute ago, the, the idea

580

: 00:24:11

of there were, there are still some

systems in place, you know, that are

581

: 00:24:14

kind of like legacy old school systems

that probably could, should change.

582

: 00:24:18

You know, and Brian, you teed

this up in your introduction.

583

: 00:24:20

In, in a world where tech and automation

is all around us, can you tell us a little

584

: 00:24:25

more about, like, what has, what has kept

Saturday Night Live and Late Night with

585

: 00:24:29

Seth Meyers, what has made them decide to

keep using cue cards, which is like the

586

: 00:24:34

ultimate analog element of production?

587

: 00:24:36

Wally: Well, Saturday Night Live, the fact

that it's live is one of the main factors,

588

: 00:24:41

you know, if you have prompters, prompters

break, prompters go down, prompters get

589

: 00:24:45

unplugged or something, you know, happens.

590

: 00:24:47

If that happened during a live

show, and it was not You know you

591

: 00:24:50

know, someone really big hosting

and , you're leaving them out to dry.

592

: 00:24:53

It would not look good for anybody.

593

: 00:24:54

So they don't want to take that chance.

594

: 00:24:55

Plus since over the years, Lorne now

considers cue cards as part of the show.

595

: 00:25:00

So when people were in the

audience watching there, people

596

: 00:25:03

come up to me all the time.

597

: 00:25:04

I was watching you guys do those cue cards

as much as I was watching the actors.

598

: 00:25:08

It's part of the experience of seeing it.

599

: 00:25:10

That's for SNL.

600

: 00:25:11

And for Seth, and for Conan and Jimmy

who all use cue cards, they learned

601

: 00:25:15

how to be on TV using cue cards.

602

: 00:25:17

So it's what they're comfortable with.

603

: 00:25:19

So again, you want to keep what

you're comfortable with and what

604

: 00:25:22

works best in those situations.

605

: 00:25:24

And they use, so they use cue cards and

for Seth also it's Someone to play off of.

606

: 00:25:29

As you guys mentioned earlier,

I'm on camera now a lot because

607

: 00:25:32

he doesn't have a co host or he

doesn't, you know, have really a band.

608

: 00:25:35

Fred's not there all the time.

609

: 00:25:36

So I'm right next to the camera that he's

talking to, you know, the entire show.

610

: 00:25:40

And if I make a mistake or he

makes a mistake or the writers

611

: 00:25:43

think of something funny for me

to say back to Seth, I'm there.

612

: 00:25:46

It's not a machine that has no personality

that he could never do anything with.

613

: 00:25:51

Sometimes prompter guys

are in different states.

614

: 00:25:53

They're not even in the

same building, you know?

615

: 00:25:55

John: Yeah.

616

: 00:25:55

So, all right, speaking of

mistakes, what's the biggest one?

617

: 00:25:58

What's the biggest gaffe that, you

know, you or your team were responsible

618

: 00:26:01

Wally: Well, so I will say, let

me just say, I'm going to say,

619

: 00:26:03

give myself a compliment and then

I'll tell you something I did bad.

620

: 00:26:05

In 33 years of holding cards on live

TV, on shows, I've never dropped a cue

621

: 00:26:10

card during a show or, or anything.

622

: 00:26:13

I may have dropped a card walking to the,

never during while someone was reading it.

623

: 00:26:17

I've never dropped a card.

624

: 00:26:18

When I drop one, I

625

: 00:26:19

think I retire maybe.

626

: 00:26:21

John: hold for applause.

627

: 00:26:22

Wow, that's

628

: 00:26:22

Wally: good.

629

: 00:26:23

33 years is pretty good.

630

: 00:26:24

So, mistakes.

631

: 00:26:25

Cards get stuck together.

632

: 00:26:26

Norman Donald was one of my favorites.

633

: 00:26:28

I used to write jokes for him

when I was, when I was younger.

634

: 00:26:30

He was doing a, a joke on Weekend Update

in the, he read the, he read the setup.

635

: 00:26:35

And I went to pull the card and there

was, you know, we tape over cards and

636

: 00:26:39

then we write, you know, changes on them.

637

: 00:26:40

Tape was stuck over the edge

and the punchline card stuck

638

: 00:26:44

and I couldn't get it apart.

639

: 00:26:46

And it just, I ruined the joke.

640

: 00:26:48

He couldn't get the punchline out.

641

: 00:26:49

He never said the punchline.

642

: 00:26:50

And I, and I felt awful.

643

: 00:26:52

There was silence and he looked at

me and I mouthed the words to him.

644

: 00:26:56

This is during the live, on the live show.

645

: 00:26:58

I mouthed.

646

: 00:26:59

And he goes, it's okay.

647

: 00:27:00

While we don't worry about it.

648

: 00:27:01

That joke.

649

: 00:27:01

Wasn't that funny anyway,

which made it like, like going,

650

: 00:27:04

no, don't, don't call me out

651

: 00:27:06

Brian: Right.

652

: 00:27:07

Right.

653

: 00:27:07

Right.

654

: 00:27:07

That's

655

: 00:27:08

Wally: So he turned it

656

: 00:27:08

into something and that's

what Seth does all the time.

657

: 00:27:10

If we make a mistake, Seth will

turn it into something funny

658

: 00:27:13

instead of like getting mad at me.

659

: 00:27:14

Like, you know, he'll make it, he'll,

he'll make a joke about it, you

660

: 00:27:18

know?

661

: 00:27:18

John: Whereas if, if it was a

technology glitch, he'd be frustrated,

662

: 00:27:22

angry and off his game probably.

663

: 00:27:23

Wally: exactly.

664

: 00:27:24

Brian: I think, you know, some

of Seth's best moments are

665

: 00:27:27

when he's just going with it.

666

: 00:27:29

Wally: Yes, he turns it into something.

667

: 00:27:30

Now.

668

: 00:27:30

Yeah, he turns it.

669

: 00:27:31

He turns it into something funny

instead of getting frustrated.

670

: 00:27:34

He realizes that.

671

: 00:27:35

Oh, and he's really

good at improv as well.

672

: 00:27:37

So he's like, Oh, wait, I can make fun of

this part and we can have a little thing

673

: 00:27:41

here and it'll be natural and fun to do

instead of me getting upset about it.

674

: 00:27:45

And the audience loves that.

675

: 00:27:46

You know, I think

676

: 00:27:47

they do.

677

: 00:27:47

Yeah.

678

: 00:27:48

So, and I, like, like I said,

there's, the mistakes are made.

679

: 00:27:50

You, you, maybe you don't have

the ending of a thing or you're

680

: 00:27:52

missing a line or a word.

681

: 00:27:54

It doesn't happen often.

682

: 00:27:55

That's why we're still, doing cards

for there for that long, you know, and

683

: 00:27:58

Brian: So I heard that it's at

the end of every season you get

684

: 00:28:02

a shot of cortisone in your arm?

685

: 00:28:03

Wally: so yeah, started about, well,

Throughout the, like maybe my first 20

686

: 00:28:07

years, I think I had, I had tendonitis

in my left elbow and I, and I rehabbed

687

: 00:28:12

that and then the next year because I

overused my right elbow, I had tendonitis

688

: 00:28:16

in my right elbow, rehabbed that, that

was good, then my left shoulder went,

689

: 00:28:20

then my right shoulder went, that was

like 20, then I had a good run and

690

: 00:28:22

now my shoulder by March or April is

throbbing with, with, with pain from,

691

: 00:28:28

from, and it's not, it's not the holding

the cards, it's the flipping, you're

692

: 00:28:31

doing this.

693

: 00:28:32

You know, and if it's someone I

can't see, it is not a lot of words.

694

: 00:28:35

I'm

695

: 00:28:35

doing this, like, this hurts me right now.

696

: 00:28:37

Like I do that.

697

: 00:28:38

John: So,

698

: 00:28:39

Wally: So, yeah, I

699

: 00:28:39

do a cortisone shot and I do

eight weeks of physical therapy

700

: 00:28:42

to get ready for the next season.

701

: 00:28:44

John: wow.

702

: 00:28:44

So, so there's, so there's golfer's

elbow, there's tennis elbow.

703

: 00:28:47

Have you had any success lobbying

your doctors for Wally shoulder?

704

: 00:28:51

Wally: It's a good idea, but

705

: 00:28:52

yeah, it's just, it's

having a toll on my body.

706

: 00:28:55

And I think.

707

: 00:28:56

When it finally breaks down, it's hurting

a lot more already and it's only December.

708

: 00:29:01

I don't know if it was the five

months off that I didn't, you

709

: 00:29:04

know, that with the writer's

710

: 00:29:04

strike.

711

: 00:29:05

that I didn't do.

712

: 00:29:05

I mean, I was rehabbing it,

but usually I'm doing Seth too.

713

: 00:29:08

So I'm working a little bit.

714

: 00:29:10

I think not working really

actually hurt me a little bit.

715

: 00:29:13

Like I said, it set it back

and it's arthritis in there.

716

: 00:29:15

I'm getting old and stuff.

717

: 00:29:16

So I can't just, I can't have

soldier surgery because I don't,

718

: 00:29:20

I can't take that time off.

719

: 00:29:21

There's no.

720

: 00:29:22

Five or six months that I

could take off, you know, so

721

: 00:29:24

Brian: Yeah.

722

: 00:29:24

That's a, that's pretty brutal

surgery that you can't just go

723

: 00:29:27

and do that for a couple of weeks.

724

: 00:29:29

Can you tell us about the makeup of

your team and, and how you, set that up

725

: 00:29:32

and how do you find people to do this?

726

: 00:29:34

Wally: I Don't go on any of the job

sites Because that would be a nightmare

727

: 00:29:40

You want to work for late night tv?

728

: 00:29:41

It's it's usually people that

are friends of people that are

729

: 00:29:45

already, already worked there.

730

: 00:29:46

Because you're sitting under the bleachers

at SNL in the studio, and sometimes you're

731

: 00:29:50

there for 12 hours just printing, printing

cards, and you want a good personality.

732

: 00:29:54

You want somebody that's not gonna annoy

somebody, you know, another person.

733

: 00:29:58

I look at personality, I look at,

then I look at neatness, obviously,

734

: 00:30:01

of their, of their handwriting,

and just how they get along with

735

: 00:30:04

other

736

: 00:30:04

people.

737

: 00:30:04

You're out with the

handwriting or the personality.

738

: 00:30:07

Brian: Both.

739

: 00:30:08

John: Both.

740

: 00:30:08

a, he's an asshole and his

handwriting is terrible.

741

: 00:30:11

Wally: Yeah, I mean, I've had, I've had

luck because my son, my oldest son, Matt

742

: 00:30:15

and Danny, both were in the TV studios

in high school and a lot of their friends

743

: 00:30:18

that they made were doing that as well.

744

: 00:30:20

So.

745

: 00:30:20

Three kids from Livingston where I

grew up are working for me now that

746

: 00:30:23

are friends, there were friends with

my oldest son and one of his college

747

: 00:30:26

friends is that moved to New York city.

748

: 00:30:27

He's working for me too.

749

: 00:30:28

So

750

: 00:30:28

my son's outlet of getting

people to work for me.

751

: 00:30:31

But it's usually younger people

that are trying to do other things

752

: 00:30:33

in the business and just trying

to make money, meet, meet people.

753

: 00:30:35

So I love doing that.

754

: 00:30:37

And I love to say, get

in here, meet people.

755

: 00:30:38

Let me introduce you to people.

756

: 00:30:39

What do you want to do?

757

: 00:30:40

A lot of them want to write.

758

: 00:30:41

So they're meeting writers

and they're talking to them.

759

: 00:30:42

It's so it's a really good outlet

for younger people to do make some

760

: 00:30:45

money and then also meet people.

761

: 00:30:47

John: Sounds like you're making some

decisions there based on chemistry

762

: 00:30:50

and, you know, feel and when you

were describing the process of,

763

: 00:30:54

you know, a three or even four You

know, sets of cards for one scene.

764

: 00:30:59

Obviously, I guess you're all turning

the same card at the same time, and

765

: 00:31:03

you're, you're, you must, are, are you

like a conductor of a symphony there?

766

: 00:31:06

Like, how's that,

767

: 00:31:07

Wally: I mean, yeah, I'm

setting, I am setting the pace.

768

: 00:31:10

So hopefully they're looking at

me, but yeah, I'm setting the pace.

769

: 00:31:13

You know, it's a lot of new holders.

770

: 00:31:14

That's a lot of practice.

771

: 00:31:14

I don't, I sometimes forget that they

don't have as much practice as I've

772

: 00:31:17

been doing for 33 years and stuff.

773

: 00:31:19

It's

774

: 00:31:20

Brian: You take that for granted, right?

775

: 00:31:21

Wally: Yeah, it's really

rhythms and things like that.

776

: 00:31:23

So I'm kind of watching them as

well, as much as I can, at least

777

: 00:31:26

during rehearsal to see if they're

keeping up and doing it properly.

778

: 00:31:31

So yeah, it's, I'm kind of, I'm kind

of teaching as well when I'm, when

779

: 00:31:35

we're blocking things and, and I

forget too, so I'll see a sketch.

780

: 00:31:38

Maybe six times, seven times before

Saturday before the live show, and they're

781

: 00:31:42

only seeing it run through on Saturday

dress rehearsal and then air show.

782

: 00:31:46

So they get three shots at it.

783

: 00:31:47

So I give them a little bit of

slack because they don't have as

784

: 00:31:49

much practice on that as I do.

785

: 00:31:51

But,

786

: 00:31:52

John: and you're also used to that,

you know, the cast and probably repeat

787

: 00:31:55

guests and kind of what their preferences

are and their cadence and timings.

788

: 00:31:58

Like, so it sounds like you're

really, you've got to get into a

789

: 00:32:01

groove with the on camera talent.

790

: 00:32:03

Wally: Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm working with

the host one on one and if it's someone

791

: 00:32:07

that's never used cards before I'm working

really hard with them trying to get them

792

: 00:32:10

comfortable It's a trust thing and trust

is I know trust in your business world

793

: 00:32:14

is very important as well I'm getting

them to gain my trust that's why I don't

794

: 00:32:18

like sometimes cards will come out and

there'll be a line missing or a word

795

: 00:32:21

missing and I tell my guys i'm like you

gotta Make sure that that doesn't happen,

796

: 00:32:26

especially on Thursday, because you're,

you're, I'm not getting that trust.

797

: 00:32:30

They're thinking, oh, shit, if they

screw up now, we'll be right on

798

: 00:32:34

Saturday, you know, so they start, you

know, so my, I think it's just like

799

: 00:32:38

getting things right, do it first.

800

: 00:32:40

Let me gain their trust and then they

can relax a little bit and then focus

801

: 00:32:43

on like the acting, you know I don't

want them worried the ones that worry

802

: 00:32:46

about cue cards too much It kind of

gets in the way of of the show and

803

: 00:32:50

their performance because they're so

focused on Doing the cards right that

804

: 00:32:54

they don't think about the acting

805

: 00:32:55

Brian: Yeah.

806

: 00:32:56

So, so last weekend was a, was a, a

good guest, Adam Driver, who's been

807

: 00:33:00

on the show a few, I think he's been

on there three or four times and the

808

: 00:33:04

monologue cuts of him behind a piano.

809

: 00:33:06

So I guess you had somebody on, you had

people in two different spots for the

810

: 00:33:09

monologue, which doesn't always happen.

811

: 00:33:11

Wally: Correct.

812

: 00:33:12

Correct.

813

: 00:33:12

Yeah.

814

: 00:33:12

very good.

815

: 00:33:12

Very, very good.

816

: 00:33:13

Yeah, we had two sides.

817

: 00:33:15

Adam's a, so did you like, he did,

he did pretty well on the show,

818

: 00:33:18

Brian: Yeah.

819

: 00:33:19

Yeah.

820

: 00:33:19

Yeah.

821

: 00:33:19

he's

822

: 00:33:19

Wally: good

823

: 00:33:20

Brian: really good.

824

: 00:33:20

Wally: He, I, I, this is his fourth time.

825

: 00:33:23

I put a cue card desk

in his dressing room.

826

: 00:33:26

Because he goes over every card

with his lines and underlines at

827

: 00:33:33

least three or four words that he

wants to emphasize on every card.

828

: 00:33:37

And then he puts slashes on

the end of sentences that he

829

: 00:33:39

wants to do a little pause at.

830

: 00:33:41

Every single card in every single sketch.

831

: 00:33:45

So I was in his dressing room more than

I was anywhere else and working with him.

832

: 00:33:48

And he puts so much work into it.

833

: 00:33:50

I think he wrote that monologue too, by

the way, with two of the other writers.

834

: 00:33:52

It was his idea.

835

: 00:33:54

And.

836

: 00:33:54

He just puts so much into it, but

that's the, to see his process from

837

: 00:33:58

like Thursday and then to see the

final product, you can really tell

838

: 00:34:01

the difference between that kind of

a host who really gives it his all.

839

: 00:34:05

And he's constantly running cards

and running cards and running cards.

840

: 00:34:08

It's pretty, it's pretty

pretty amazing to watch.

841

: 00:34:10

And it's, you know, the

result is pretty good as well.

842

: 00:34:12

Brian: Yeah, I love that.

843

: 00:34:13

How you have the juxtaposition of the

guy has been part of it four times and

844

: 00:34:18

everybody that's been a part of four times

probably has their own different way.

845

: 00:34:21

You know, just last week it was

Emma Stone, who probably has her

846

: 00:34:24

own set of ways to do it, who's also

really involved with everything.

847

: 00:34:28

And then, you know, you have somebody

that might be brand new and you got

848

: 00:34:31

to figure out a whole new process.

849

: 00:34:32

So it's all over the map.

850

: 00:34:34

Wally: Ask them, yeah, see

how comfortable they are.

851

: 00:34:35

They might, they might not see very well.

852

: 00:34:37

They're going to wear contacts.

853

: 00:34:38

They're not going to wear contacts.

854

: 00:34:39

You know, it's, it's there's a

lot that goes into making, again,

855

: 00:34:43

making them comfortable and making

it, you know, a good performance.

856

: 00:34:45

Emma Stone was like, was it,

she, she just is good naturally.

857

: 00:34:49

She memorizes a lot.

858

: 00:34:51

She's, you know, she's a

movie, she's a movie actress.

859

: 00:34:53

So she's that, she's got that skill.

860

: 00:34:54

Can't memorize a lot

because it changes so much.

861

: 00:34:56

But she gets really familiar with it

and just uses the cards of reference.

862

: 00:34:59

And this, this week we have

Kate McKinnon, who was a cast

863

: 00:35:02

member

864

: 00:35:02

Brian: Fantastic.

865

: 00:35:03

Right?

866

: 00:35:03

Yeah.

867

: 00:35:04

Wally: I don't have to worry about her.

868

: 00:35:05

She knows that I read cards.

869

: 00:35:06

She reads two cards.

870

: 00:35:07

Great.

871

: 00:35:07

So she'll be fine.

872

: 00:35:09

It'll be an easier week for me.

873

: 00:35:10

So it's, it's a good

compared to last week.

874

: 00:35:12

I'll have a little bit of

875

: 00:35:12

an easier week this week

876

: 00:35:17

Thanks for listening to part one

of our episode with Wally Feresten.

877

: 00:35:20

Join us next time to hear

more great conversation and

878

: 00:35:22

stories from Cue Card Wally.

879

: 00:35:24

Thanks everyone.