Cruisin’ Through a Crisis: Xpertainment CEO Gordon Ho
All aboard for some harrowing tales from the early days of Covid. Gordon Ho, a marketing whiz and crisis communication pro, shares stories of critical decisions made during a time of utter crisis. When the Diamond Princess cruise ship was stuck in Yokohoma Japan during one of the earliest outbreaks of COVID 19, thousands of passengers and crew were quarantined and information changed hourly. We start the voyage with some air travel, covering Boeing recent door-busting crisis. But don’t worry, John and Brian keep things light, covering Gordon’s career highlights, like scouting out a chocolate program and getting a generation of kids hooked on disappearing Disney classics. Brian seeks an oracle for a future Hopelessly Unattainable Guest.
Key topics & chapter markers
(00:27): Reviewing Boeing’s current crisis
(03:12): Snap Decision: Did Boeing handle it OK…and how soon is too soon?
(06:32): Lightning Round: which corporate PR crisis was a better nightmare scenario?
(09:06): Meet Gordon Ho
(16:44): Terror at sea: early Covid strikes the Diamond Princess cruise ship
(39:42): Before Covid…the greatest job in the world
(47:28): Growing a market through scarcity at Disney
(51:49): Dear Hopelessly Unattainable Guest
Background content
What's going on with Boeing planes? - Mashable
Chronology of COVID-19 Cases on the Diamond Princess Cruise Ship and Ethical Considerations: A Report From Japan - National Library of Medicine
27 Days in Tokyo Bay - Wired
Jan Swartz: Steering Princess Cruises Through the COVID-19 Crisis - Harvard Business Review (for purchase)
www.xpertainment.com - Gordon Ho's website
Connect with Brian and John on LinkedIn:
Transcript
Well, good morning, Brian.
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:Morning, John.
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:How are you?
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:I am, the sun is shining, the
birds are singing, and I am happy.
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:I like to hear that.
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:I like to hear that.
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:It's beautiful out.
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:Yes.
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:The weather is beautiful.
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:And, I think it sets the stage
nicely for talking about,
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:things going wrong and crisis.
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:Oh gosh.
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:The theme of today's episode.
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:Yikes.
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:How's that for a kickoff?
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:Yeah.
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:Let's get into it.
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:Let's do it.
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:All right.
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:I don't think there's a bigger
corporate crisis we could talk
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:about right now, more than Boeing.
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:Correct..
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:Yeah.
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:So obviously no stranger to, um,
crisis the last couple of years.
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:It really came to a head in January.
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:When one of their planes with Alaska
airlines, a Boeing max nine was forced
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:to make an emergency landing after a door
plug fell off a few minutes after takeoff.
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:And the images of that were just shocking.
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:Shocking.
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:And everywhere.
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:Yeah, that's the thing with video is
that, uh, you know, if that didn't
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:have the accompanying video, uh,
it wouldn't probably be anywhere
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:near as much noise as it is.
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:So that incident, sent shockwaves
to millions of travelers.
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:sent off a ton of red flags with
regulators and, and their partners.
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:And,, Boeing's trust has
probably never been lower than
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:it is right now with the public.
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:Like I mentioned this is far from
the first issue with a Boeing max
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:plane in the last few years, in 2018
and:
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:uh, 346 people died in plane crashes.
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:So there's been a lot of, attention
on Boeing, to fix a lot of issues
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:with their planes and this latest
incident in January, is not making
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:this go away for them . After their,
planes were grounded by the FAA.
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:they found the door plug was missing
four bolts that fell off and a number
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:of other planes, were showing that
bolts were loosened and, not tightened.
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:And, so they've been going
through an auditing and inspection
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:process with all their planes.
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:And then, you know, more recently in
March, there's been some significant
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:executive changes there as well.
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:One of the things that they've been
trying to do is present a series of
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:steps to provide transparency and,
and, and show that they're taking
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:some accountability as a company.
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:Mm-Hmm.
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:, on their website specifically, you
know, they're pushing people to a,
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:a microsite section that, Has all
the information on the incident.
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:There's a four minute video of their
ceo addressing employees at a team town
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:hall about the importance of safety,
importance of getting this moment, right?
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:And how they'll handle it as a company.
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:and they also have a detailed timeline
of statements and media clips responding
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:to reports, action plans and other
relevant news surrounding this crisis.
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:. So they're trying to, to get out there
and take accountability for the situation.
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:and not shy away from the public.
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:But, as we all know, it's, an
extremely long road for a company
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:like that, if they can ever gain back
trust, especially in a situation where
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:people's lives are at stake and, people
have died as a result of their actions
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:and, there's been a lot of safety
concerns the last few years in general,
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:and this certainly doesn't help that.
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:So John, my question and snap decision for
you, or, you know, what are your thoughts
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:on how Boeing has handled this situation?
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:And what is the mindset that needs to
be instilled in communication teams
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:and marketers in situations like these?
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:If you're working for that
company and you're a marketer or a
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:communications person, when is the,
the, when's the timing right to
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:get back to promoting your company?
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:Well, that last part's tricky.
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:The first part about how Boeing
handled it, I think they've
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:done some things really well.
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:Yeah, I think it was great.
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:Like you mentioned that they
released an internal video, you know,
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:things the CEO is saying to the
employee base right after the accident.
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:I think that's, that's great.
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:kind of shows a little
bit of transparency.
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:Yes, they took some accountability.
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:I don't feel like they announced a
whole lot of concrete steps, like
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:things that they're going to do.
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:And they talked about, you know,
how safety needs to become a greater
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:priority, but I don't think they
really outlined an action plan quickly.
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:good that the CEO, , has stepped down,
That's, I think an important step to
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:indicate that you're going to change
the culture of the company, because
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:frankly, in the wake of this most recent
thing, there's been an increasing, bit
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:of, volume around the idea that perhaps
Boeing has sacrificed safety over
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:share price for a bunch of years now.
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:Ironic, because the share price for
the past five years has declined.
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:Not done particularly well, so it
hasn't worked, but, you know, the
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:CEO and the CEO before him, I believe
focused on cost cutting hasn't
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:really led to, great stock results.
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:And at the same time, it seems
like safety's taken a big hit.
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:So, yeah, they had to make that big change
in terms of when it's good to get back.
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:Look, the trust is huge and
it's hard to measure that.
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:I know there are.
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:Trust indices out there.
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:I think there are a few
things that have to happen.
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:One, you need to have some very
clear,, steps that you've communicated.
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:I think you need to start
to see those steps be.
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:Reflected back to you where other
people are repeating the steps
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:that you're taking to fix things.
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:so obviously there's, you know, the
standard social media monitoring.
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:You do the PR monitoring.
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:1 thing that struck me was,
have you seen the kayak?
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:The travel site and app
they had previously had.
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:filter where you could look
at your flights and you could
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:filter out types of aircraft.
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:Like if you don't want to fly a,
uh, an Airbus or a, a 737 Max, you
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:could, you could select those out.
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:They've moved that up.
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:Since they moved that up
higher in the navigation.
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:So have you seen that tool?
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:No, I have not.
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:It's pretty wild.
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:So that will be an indicator to me,
like over time, if fewer people are
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:opting out of flying your plane that
had an incident, maybe that shows that
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:people have either kind of, you know,
regained some trust or forgotten.
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:Frankly, that happens all the time, right?
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:People forget stuff.
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:Yeah.
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:So I think that's, those are the kinds of
things they've got to pay attention to.
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:They've got to see that the public is
starting to show indicators of buying
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:into whatever the very specific and
transparent plan they've put out there is.
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:Yeah.
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:It's a, it's going to be a long road.
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:I did see in the news, recently
that, their defense system that they
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:were partnering with Israel on, uh,
helped defend against the attack
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:from Iran, which, it doesn't support
the commercial airline business,
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:but it does, put some good news in
Boeing's hands for the land itself,.
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:So, that is probably something that
would make sense to promote, but not,
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:not be a direct hit on the commercial
airline business, which would You
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:know, clearly they're nowhere near
ready to, you know, be talking about
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:good things that they're doing.
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:I was looking at a bunch of corporate
crises, you know, PR issues,
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:over the past 20 years or so.
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:and it is interesting how quickly
I've forgotten some of them.
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:Yeah.
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:Uh, I have a, I have a, uh, snap
decision lightning round for you.
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:All right.
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:All right.
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:So the question to you, Brian,
is which of these two PR crises.
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:Would you have preferred to handle?
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:They're all PR nightmares.
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:Okay.
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:I'm gonna start with a couple
that kind of unfolded on YouTube.
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:One, the Comcast technician who
fell asleep on a customer's couch
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:while waiting on hold for his own
company to answer his phone call.
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:Or the Domino's pizza scandal in
:
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:a very disturbing video of them
tampering with a customer's food.
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:So which of those, which of those would
have been a bigger nightmare to handle?
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:I think I'm going with the
Comcast on the couch guy.
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:Yeah.
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:I don't want to be thinking about
what happened with the pizza dough
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:while I'm eating the product.
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:So wait, you'd rather handle
the Comcast ignition guy?
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:Yeah.
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:Okay.
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:You'd rather handle that one.
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:Okay.
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:Yeah.
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:Which one would you rather
handle between these two?
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:The BP oil spill in 2010, following the
Deepwater Horizon oil rig, uh, explosion.
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:Yeah.
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:or the Volkswagen diesel gate emissions
scandal in:
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:having cheat software in its, in its
cars, that led to a really big recall
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:and 4 billion in penalties eventually.
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:Which would you have rather handled?
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:I think I'd rather handle the VW one.
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:the oil one.
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:Yeah.
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:I mean, that was just, you remember
like the oil wouldn't stop for like.
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:I didn't fully remember.
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:I knew it was a while, but it poured
in for three months to your point.
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:I mean, there was just like,
there was no stopping it.
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:And the amount of damage that did to
the planet is probably so significant.
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:We can't even think about it, but I
would not want to be in or near that one.
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:Yeah, and 11 people died,
which I didn't remember that.
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:Oh, I didn't remember that.
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:Yeah, 11 people died.
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:and yeah, the, the, just the images coming
out of that just didn't stop for a while.
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:So yeah, I, I'm with you on that one.
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:all right.
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:Would you have rather handled the Samsung
Note seven battery issues in:
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:where phones just kept catching fire or
when United Airlines overbooked a flight
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:and called her in a security guard to
drag an elderly doctor off the plane?
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:Ooh.
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:I would probably choose the,
the airlines scandal because.
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:It's mostly a singular incident,
whereas the phone's blowing
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:up could affect more people.
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:I mean, there's no, there's no Yeah, okay.
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:, pick the less, more terrible one.
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:Exactly.
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:Alright, well, speaking of that,
all of them, in my mind, pale
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:to a PR crisis that faced, , the
guest we're going to turn to now.
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:Oh, can't wait.
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:ALL: Alright, so Brian, I am really
happy to introduce an old friend,
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:a guy I met when we were serving
on a nonprofit board together,
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:John: Gordon Ho.
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:Today, he is CEO of a strategy
consulting firm, Expertainment, and he
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:also serves as an adjunct professor at
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:both Georgetown and USC, where
he teaches marketing, crisis
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:strategy, and product management.
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:We're going to talk to him about
that crisis strategy piece a bit.
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:he's worked at and advised
for several tech startups.
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:He's also worked for some really big
brands, Disney and Princess Cruises.
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:At Disney Studios, he oversaw the
3 billion, billion with a B, direct
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:to video category, including digital
and DVD slash Blu ray business.
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:As well as Disney's movie
rewards loyalty program.
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:More recently, he was CMO and head of
sales at Princess Cruises, where he
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:launched the Discovery at Sea partnership,
and the Ocean Medallion launch, which
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:was considered the number one travel
Internet of Things wearable device.
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:And the reason we want to talk to him
today is he was responsible for one
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:of the most challenging, corporate
communications issues I can imagine
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:during the Diamond Princess COVID crisis.,
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:Gordon's on the board of, the Coalition
of Asian Pacifics and Entertainment
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:and, on the board of the Ronald
McDonald House of Southern California.
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:He is super smart, he's really
fun, and he is, Brian, one of the
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:nicest people you'll ever meet.
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:Please say hi to Gordon Ho
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:.
ALL: Well, thank you, John, for that intro.
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:I'm flattered and happy to be here.
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:Well, we are thrilled you're here.
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:Sorry, it was a little long, but you've
got a, you've got a long resume, pal.
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:so Brian, I've been talking about, um,
corporate crises and how marketers and
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:communicators can prepare themselves
and respond when something goes wrong.
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:, in particular, we were talking about
how Boeing, , has been facing an
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:awful lot of struggles recently.
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:There've been, some people have
kind of congratulated them for the
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:way they've handled the crisis.
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:Others have come out really
strongly against them.
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:How would you suggest Boeing respond
to recent events, or how they should
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:respond to what's been going on with them?
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:Yeah, it's, it's interesting.
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:I think you have to go back in
history a little bit on Boeing
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:because, you know, this, this all
stemmed from a lot of culture.
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:I think has been a big part of it, right?
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:You had Boeing, which was very engineering
technology, arguably safety focus.
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:But then with the 1997 merger
with McDonnell Douglas.
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:That changed, right?
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:Cause you had a lot of executives
at McDonnell Douglas who
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:applied and nothing wrong.
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:I mean the shareholder return
affordability, but those
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:principles took over the
engineering first type of culture.
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:And I think you hear when you
talk to a lot of people at Boeing
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:people in engineering, There is
this sense that, hey, I'm afraid
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:to speak up because of retaliation.
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:And you also had this
symbolic thing, right?
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:You had Boeing move their
headquarters to Chicago away from
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:Seattle where the engineers were.
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:So that's a sentiment of like,
okay, what are you prioritizing?
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:And of course, the big thing
that happened in 18 and 19
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:were the two 737 MAX 8 crashes.
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:And one could arguably, they prioritized
profits over safety because they
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:did not tell people about the new
features that were on the plane.
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:They said, Hey, this is
just like the other 737 Max.
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:Just a few things that you
don't have to worry about.
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:Well, the fact is you had to
worry about it and they didn't.
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:And one of the things they set
forth was that there is no new
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:simulator training that is needed.
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:And that drove a lot of what they,
I guess narrow minded focus, which
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:of course led to pilots maybe not
being exposed to the training and
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:features that they should have been.
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:In this case, where you have this, door
plug blowout, one could, I think they're
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:still looking at it, but I think the
fact is there could be some of the same
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:thing, which is, In a focus to get out
and catch up maybe from some of the
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:lost sails as a result of what happened
in '18-19', they may have prioritized
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:schedules and delivery of, jets and planes
over the prioritization of safety checks.
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:And the report from the FAA just came
out that seemed to say, hey, look at,
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:and this was the, this was the study
that started in 20 as a result of the
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:plane crashes, and they concluded.
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:Number one, there is still this fear
of retaliation, if you speak up.
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:Number two, the safety procedures
change so frequently, it's
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:hard for the people to keep up,
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:so I think there's the conclusion that
Boeing has a lot of work to do still,
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:and hopefully they're on that mend.
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:To your question about what they've
done to date, the fact that Calhoun,
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:the CEO resigned, I think was an
important symbolic gesture that
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:you have new management coming in.
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:If you remember Calhoun was the chairman
of the board when the two plane crashes
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:and all the fatalities happened.
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:So that was a lot of people
say, wait a minute, that seems
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:like a continuity of management.
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:But now of course he's gone.
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:So I think a lot of the continuity
that happened in 18, 19, at least
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:symbolically with Calhoun leaving.
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:That is maybe a change in direction.
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:Let's hope.
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:and we'll see what,
what else they recover.
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:and it's hard because you
have a duopoly, right?
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:With Boeing and Airbus.
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:And so when Airbus says, Hey, we have a
new lighter, faster fuel efficient plane.
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:There is this huge pressure
for Boeing to react.
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:That's what happened with
the Boeing seven 37 max.
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:And it seems like maybe just maybe that.
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:They went too fast, and you're
seeing this ongoing repercussions.
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:Yeah, I think the thing that struck
me, in looking at some of the, some
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:of the reporting was exactly one of
the things you highlighted, this idea
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:that, When they came out with that
new plane, there was a pretty strong
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:insistence from Boeing that pilots didn't
need to turn themselves with a new,
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:a new system and do that simulation.
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:And, and, and that's the one that
really struck me is like, it seemed
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:like they were trying to just.
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:Sell units and, really not
focused on the safety piece.
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:So that's struck out and John, and
John specifically to build on that
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:there, one of the biggest customers
was Southwest airlines Southwest said,
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:look it, we don't want our pilots to
have to go through simulator training.
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:So to make that sale,
they committed to it.
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:So that was a customer commitment.
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:And they actually said, if you require
additional training, we will pay you.
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:I think it was a million
dollars per plane.
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:So that was the discussion
throughout Boeing.
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:We are not going to pay that.
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:There is no training even, and that's,
and that, that what's happened in
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:blinds you, because that becomes the
edict, that's governing your decisions.
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:So, so how do you, as a marketer
or, , a communications person, how
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:do you handle yourself in a situation
like that and, and how do you make a
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:recommendations to leadership teams
that clearly have made mistakes?
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:If you don't have a culture of
allowing people to speak up, having
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:management that's supportive, right?
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:Instead of managers saying,
you're making me look bad.
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:How does it that when you complain,
the manager says you're making me look
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:good because you're one of the people
that identified something that's hard.
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:And so I think culture is a huge
part of what has to, and that
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:takes time and that's set forth
by management, their actions.
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:Right.
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:And I think that's what has to happen.
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:Yeah.
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:That culture piece is huge and it is hard.
334
:Cause even public company or not, just,
you know, a lot of times the CEO is
335
:getting a fairly whitewashed version
of what's happening in an organization.
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:People, even if the culture
is somewhat open to it.
337
:People are pretty resistant to give the,
the top person, uh, bad news sometimes.
338
:And then, and then you maybe say,
okay, well, maybe the, maybe you
339
:have a chief risk officer or whatever
that reports right into the board.
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:Maybe co reports into the board and
CEO so that there's an independent
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:board director who can actually have
these comfortable conversations, right?
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:Separate from the CEO, right?
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:There's all sorts of things that you can
try to do to try to quote unquote, protect
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:the The team that is bringing up issues.
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:Yeah, it has to be real, right?
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:Yeah.
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:So this is where you have more
and more companies setting up a
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:separate risk committee on their
board to deal with these issues and
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:to have them directly responsible.
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:Chief risk officer is duly reporting
or directly reporting into them.
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:There's a number of things that
you can do to try to make it
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:easier to have things come out.
353
:All right, Gordon, can you take
us through the crisis that you and
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:princess cruises faced back in February
and March of:
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:princess cruise ship was stuck in, I
believe Yokohama, Japan with thousands
356
:of passengers and crew quarantined due
to a very early outbreak of COVID 19.
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:Right.
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:can you kind of take us through that?
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:Yeah.
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:And then obviously it's, there's a,
there's many elements to it, but let
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:me at least set up the framework for
the, the listeners, which is, you
362
:know, on January 20th, our diamond
princess ship was leaving for a cruise
363
:from Japan or Yokohama, a passenger
from Hong Kong boarded the ship
364
:with everybody else on January 20th.
365
:They then got off the ship
on January 25th in Hong Kong.
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:And didn't come back on the ship.
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:And then we found out on February
1st, that that passenger who
368
:just embarked tested positive.
369
:We then immediately notified
the Japanese ministry of health.
370
:And we rushed back to Japan and we
proceeded to test a sample of passengers
371
:and unfortunately, 10 tested positive
that then led to the decision by
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:the Japanese Ministry of Health.
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:We're going to have you in quarantine.
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:So the decision was made is that
our ship in the past, all the
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:passengers, guests and crew would
be put in quarantine for two weeks,
376
:which was the understood duration,
if you will, of coronavirus or COVID.
377
:And that was the crisis.
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:Suddenly we are trying to manage
the logistics, communications,
379
:?
And ultimately partnering with all Japanese Ministry of Health and
380
:other health organizations to get
through this quarantine, right?
381
:Our cruise ship is made for vacations.
382
:It's not necessarily
designed for quarantine.
383
:And so think about the elements
that we had to suddenly figure out.
384
:And you had to do it in
a very, very public way.
385
:You were the center of the storm in
terms of media coverage for, Oh yeah,
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:you're, you're absolutely right.
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:We were the front page headline
news for, for a long time.
388
:And part of it is because if you think
about all the people on the ship, we had
389
:Americans, Canadians, Australians, right?
390
:We had people from,
Many, many nationalities.
391
:And for, unfortunately for those
countries, that was the first time
392
:that someone from their country
was known to have coronavirus.
393
:So in terms of Americans, we had
several hundred Americans, right?
394
:And this, or when this started,
there was no known cases of
395
:Corona virus or COVID in America.
396
:Now it is since been proven
that there were cases we
397
:just didn't know at the time.
398
:So suddenly cruising became front and
center for Corona virus and princess
399
:cruises and our diamond princess ship
was the pinnacle of the press coverage.
400
:And of course, as you know, from a
communications PR standpoint, the media.
401
:You know, and I, and I, as part
of my teaching, I tell the class,
402
:look at for good or for bad, the
media is compensated by flicks.
403
:They're trying to write
click bait headlines.
404
:What click bait headline is
going to get more clicks, right?
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:Something like disaster and sickness
at sea, or Princess Cruises doing a
406
:pretty good job of managing the crisis.
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:Which, which one's gonna get more clicks?
408
:I don't oversee that headline.
409
:Yeah, but you had, you had, you
had so many different, headlines.
410
:And that's because that's
what got the clicks.
411
:And so there's no way you could have
done it where everyone would have been.
412
:Oh, great job.
413
:Cause no one knew what
the hell was going on.
414
:No, I think that was part of the thing.
415
:One of the, so when you think about a,
we were probably more prepared than,
416
:than most, Because number one in, in,
in the crisis management course, that
417
:we have at USC that I teach the first
thing and Ninety percent of crisis
418
:management is the preparation, right?
419
:So the three-part framework is
prepare, manage and recover.
420
:So, and a lot of people jump
to the manage, but you, your
421
:ability to manage really is, is
tied to how well you prepare.
422
:So, for example, we have designated
crisis teams pre-assigned People
423
:know who is accountable for
what we do drills quarterly.
424
:Okay.
425
:So we, and we even drill for an outbreak.
426
:I mean, now we didn't anticipate
coronavirus, but we've drilled
427
:for things that like a norovirus,
which is a stomach type flu.
428
:We do practice for that.
429
:We practice for hurricanes.
430
:We practice for anything,
a mechanical malfunction.
431
:All right.
432
:So that's something
433
:.
And then we monitor, we knew about coronavirus because
434
:we have offices in Japan.
435
:We have offices in Shanghai, Taiwan.
436
:And all of them were telling
us, Hey, this is a big deal.
437
:So we were on high alert already.,
and when this hit, we stood
438
:up the teams, right, we, we,
we stood up a team in Japan.
439
:We stood up a team in our
headquarters in Santa Clarita.
440
:We actually flew out our, one
of our senior executives who ran
441
:international Tony Kaufman to
fly out to Japan, to oversee.
442
:The crisis management efforts in market.
443
:And of course we had a
crisis team on the ship.
444
:The captain of course is
in charge of the ship.
445
:And then of course we had
various leaders in Santa Clarita
446
:managing various components.
447
:And so I would say that this was
kind of a multifunction management
448
:of which you could break it
down to maybe three key things.
449
:One, well, the first thing
is just the priority.
450
:The priority was pretty easy.
451
:The safety and health
of everybody on board.
452
:Every decision that was made was made
with that principle in mind, which
453
:made it easier because if somebody
at a different, at various levels of
454
:the company, if they had to make a
decision, they made a decision that this
455
:is going to make things safer, right?
456
:Or more comfortable for
our crew or passengers.
457
:And that allows you to make decisions.
458
:Sorry to interrupt you Gordon.
459
:Can you give us a quick example of one of
those decisions that took place that where
460
:you kind of had to weigh the trade off.
461
:, of.
462
:This versus that Right right off the
bat, you know, we knew hey these a lot
463
:of these people have prescriptions.
464
:Think about it How much medicine
do you bring on a vacation?
465
:Enough for the vacation, right?
466
:What happens if you have to
spend two more weeks unplanned
467
:on your vacation in quarantine?
468
:You're going to run out of medicine.
469
:So immediately the teams that local
doctor says, Hey, we have an issue here.
470
:We're going to have to start coordinating
with the Japanese ministry of health.
471
:All of these medications, which are
in different languages, think about
472
:the logistics of that guys, right?
473
:You got all these prescriptions
and different languages in dosages
474
:that may be metric or non metric.
475
:And you have the Japanese, working
with the Japanese Ministry of Health to
476
:figure those medicines out in Japanese,
figure out the right dosage, convert
477
:it, get the medicines it was quite
the logistical complex effort, but the
478
:teams rose to the occasion, but that's
example that you just have to do it,
479
:another example is the fact that we
didn't know a lot about the disease.
480
:So all of us stepped up to try to
figure out, okay, what do we know?
481
:How can we learn more?
482
:For example, in my case, I
actually, this is my wife.
483
:My wife reminded me, Gordon,
don't, don't remember.
484
:There's a gentleman who
is a friend of ours.
485
:Didn't he work with the WHO?
486
:So we called him up and sure
enough, he put me in touch with the
487
:director of communications at the
WHO, the world health organization.
488
:So I gave her a call and
I'm on the phone with her.
489
:Next thing she knows, she puts me
on the phone with the director.
490
:of immunology who's overseeing
the WHO's efforts on coronavirus.
491
:So then I proceed to get our chief
medical officer on the phone, right?
492
:Because this is above my pay grade, trying
to discuss, like, solutions for the virus.
493
:But she is literally telling us in real
time what the WHO knows about the virus.
494
:For example, that hand
gel kills the virus.
495
:I don't know if you know this, but hand
gel or alcohol does not kill norovirus.
496
:It's useless.
497
:But it works against coronavirus.
498
:So these are new things we're
learning real time, right?
499
:From the director at the
WHO about things to do.
500
:So you literally have to step
up and figure, who do we know?
501
:Who can help us out?
502
:And I'll give you another
example is your customers.
503
:You might think, okay, in a crisis,
you're trying to manage the story, right?
504
:A lot of people talk about, oh,
we got to control the narrative.
505
:It's really hard to control a narrative
when every single person on that
506
:ship has a smartphone documenting any
announcement, any piece of communication.
507
:And you know what they're doing?
508
:You know what's happening to them?
509
:CNN, CNBC, Fox News, ABC, whenever
they see a tweet, Or Facebook posts
510
:from any of our passengers they reach
out to them say hey, this is CNN
511
:We'd like to talk to you in an hour.
512
:Are you available?
513
:And they're doing literally live
interviews from the ship The idea that
514
:you can manage the narrative when you
have real time interviews with the
515
:people on board, not going to happen.
516
:So it's better instead
to solve the problem.
517
:In today's modern crisis management,
it's not about, certainly you
518
:don't ignore the narrative.
519
:focus is solve the problem.
520
:Like you said, You know, your number one
thing is to try to keep everybody safe.
521
:That's there.
522
:And if you, if you do things
that help in that direction,
523
:then the narrative will be right.
524
:,
Brian, you bring up to build on that, right?
525
:Because does the media want to
hear what princess is doing?
526
:That's good.
527
:Yeah, I'll take it.
528
:But for more often than not, they want to
know sensationalistic what's going wrong.
529
:Right.
530
:Cause that's just more clickbait.
531
:Unfortunately, I hate to say it.
532
:Mayhem is just more riveting
for viewers for whatever reason.
533
:It's terrible, but it's true.
534
:So if we can't get our perspective
out Because they're more focused on
535
:certain sensationalistic elements.
536
:By treating and solving the problem,
you let your guests tell the story.
537
:So I'll give you an example.
538
:During these interviews, a common question
would be, Hey John and Brian, you're never
539
:going to go on a cruise again, are you?
540
:9 said, we're already booked
on our next princess cruise.
541
:Wow.
542
:Really?
543
:And then they'll say
while they're quarantined.
544
:While they're in quarantine.
545
:While they're quarantined.
546
:That's amazing.
547
:Right?
548
:And part of it is because we gave
them all a free cruise pretty early.
549
:We said, we're so sorry this is happening.
550
:We're going to reimburse
you for what you paid.
551
:And we're going to give you an equal
amount to try a future cruise with us.
552
:They had nothing but time, so
they were all booking cruises
553
:using the credit we gave them.
554
:I'll give you another example.
555
:One of the couples that were on
the ship was on a honeymoon and
556
:they were very prolific on digital.
557
:They, they had Reddit has
something called ask me anything.
558
:AMA their AMA was the world's
most popular AMA of all time.
559
:It's now number two because they
were doing real time AMA is here's
560
:what it's like to be on this ship.
561
:All right.
562
:They were young.
563
:They were a honeymoon couple.
564
:So it was very interesting, right?
565
:Oh my goodness.
566
:We're so sorry.
567
:And they happened to be
medical professionals as well.
568
:One of them was, I reached out to
them, got ahold of them on Reddit
569
:and said, I'm here to help you.
570
:Let me know what things you need
or, and they happen to be very
571
:connected to the people on the ship.
572
:And they would tell me and the rest of
the princess team, Hey, cabin number,
573
:you know, four 22 could use some of
this and they would provide feedback.
574
:And so we had this real time
communication loop, which
575
:enabled us to be more responsive.
576
:And so when they then did an interview
with CNN or Fox news, whatever they would
577
:say, and we're, you know, we're working
with, you know, princess executives.
578
:Right to try to provide as much and so it
was partnership So a lot of times people
579
:forget the people in the crisis can be
a partner with you most people want to
580
:do well, they don't want their fellow
passengers suffering You know, beyond the
581
:self interest, we're, we're, we care most,
you know, most people are very caring.
582
:They want to, we're, most
people want to help others out.
583
:Yeah.
584
:So that's another example.
585
:That's fascinating.
586
:I mean, just the, you know, you go on
with the mindset that anything that you
587
:communicate to somebody on the cruise
ship, that's going to get out in the media
588
:yeah.
589
:. So then the question is.
590
:You want to make sure what you issue,
you know, okay, this is like going
591
:to get out into the press So let's be
careful about it, but you have to do it
592
:quickly So another recommendation for
anybody going through a crisis is you
593
:need to stand up communication teams to
write content Whether it's press release
594
:media release stuff for your website.
595
:We were recording Videos every day
because we had a video from the chief
596
:medical officer, video from the chief
experience officer talking about
597
:how we're trying to make them more
comfortable videos from our CEO, right?
598
:We, we, we got people who didn't
necessarily do this for princess.
599
:We then onboarded them and say,
Hey, we know you're a good writer.
600
:Could you help us write this stuff?
601
:We needed people around the world.
602
:Think about social media.
603
:We had to monitor social media boards
around the world in local languages.
604
:But ultimately that content was key.
605
:And the other thing I would
say is you need to have an
606
:approval process that is quick.
607
:So we would say like, okay, this
is going out noon every day.
608
:We will have a draft up by 1130.
609
:Everybody get on this shared site
and provide shared comments so we can
610
:see it all and it will be approved.
611
:At noon, you have the set schedule, right?
612
:And everybody knows, all the way up
to the CEO, you have access, take
613
:a look, otherwise it's going out.
614
:Yeah, I was going to ask you about that,
because, you know, even in the best of
615
:times, getting everybody to agree on
what something should be, uh, can be
616
:difficult, but the fact that you don't
even know all the information you need
617
:to know, and you have to constantly
communicate things, knowing that it,
618
:it probably did change, constantly,
but being able to enable and activate.
619
:That type of ongoing communication
is it's so key because, you know,
620
:we've all been in situations where
you just can't get the message out
621
:I think that's key
getting the facts was key.
622
:And this is where establishing clear
communication with the Japanese
623
:ministry of health was coordinating
the testing to make sure what is
624
:the accurate number of people that
have been tested positive, right?
625
:How many people have they been
transported off the ship, all this stuff.
626
:This is real time information that
we tried to convey to the guests.
627
:And this is where you can
have version creep, right?
628
:With the, it's very possible, right?
629
:Who has the right data.
630
:And so you have to validate the data.
631
:And once you confirm it, we put
it up on the website under a new
632
:area called notices and advisories.
633
:So that was our Bible.
634
:And so when social media, when our
team on social media posted something,
635
:they would always refer back.
636
:To the notice it is my
notices and advisories page.
637
:So we would always know we were going
back to our single source of truth.
638
:That's an important thing that every
crisis team should think about.
639
:Where is our single source of truth?
640
:Let's make sure everybody internally
and externally refers to it.
641
:And that way you won't have version creep
because that's going to make you look
642
:bad when someone interviews you and says,
wait a minute, you've reported 22 people
643
:were impacted and this thing says 32.
644
:What is it?
645
:Seems like you don't know what's going on.
646
:Just makes you look bad.
647
:Those two things you just mentioned
that that kind of single source of truth
648
:and the daily publishing schedule were
those things that you had, from all of
649
:your preparation were those in place or
were some of those real time decisions
650
:you had to kind of put into place?
651
:Yeah.
652
:Yeah.
653
:Yeah, certainly the idea of, common
goal so we can make decisions, but I do
654
:think this rapid communication to the
passengers, I think maybe that was, we've
655
:had done versions of it, but not to the
refinement that we had to and standing
656
:up all these content teams and all this
stuff, because there was an, the amount
657
:of communication we had to try to get
out because we had so many stakeholders.
658
:Think about every embassy
reaching out to us because they
659
:had citizens aboard the ship.
660
:Think about that.
661
:Then the other thing would be
regarding the notices and advisories.
662
:Yes, that was a new section of
our website that we stood up.
663
:I mean, we've had versions of this, but
to have to do this like couple times
664
:every day with new information, you
know, I think that became a lifesaver
665
:that we set up this whole thing so
that we wouldn't have version creep.
666
:So we've had versions of it, but maybe
not to the extent that we had to create
667
:for this And were you, were you grounding
other ships at that time or were they
668
:still No, that's a good question.
669
:So at the time we took
additional precautions.
670
:So one of the things that we did is as
we were getting real time learning, we
671
:were passing it on to the fleet, not
just the fleet, but the whole industry.
672
:We actually wrote up certain best
practices, shared it with the industry
673
:organization because we don't want to
compete on health and emergencies, right?
674
:That's not good for the industry.
675
:Right.
676
:Right.
677
:So for example, the prescriptions,
you know, we said, Hey guys, here's
678
:a tip that you should tell all your
passengers bring extra medication.
679
:. We shared that freely through the industry
channels to all the other cruise lines.
680
:We did ground our fleet, a month later.
681
:We were the first cruise line
to decide, you know what?
682
:We're going to ground our whole fleet.
683
:Then I think it was a day later, the
CDC shut down the rest of the industry.
684
:Well, I'm sure you had a, even before
they became grounded or docked or
685
:whatever the C term of that is.
686
:I I'm sure you were getting flooded
with customer service questions
687
:about whether the thing was even
going to happen or not, right?
688
:Like you guys were, there was lift.
689
:Yeah, there is.
690
:There's definitely
questions about like, okay.
691
:Cause like for diamond princess, we
had people who were booked on the
692
:next cruise and the next cruise, and
we have to tell them, Hey guys, we're
693
:not sailing, we're in a quarantine.
694
:.
Certainly that had to be managed.
695
:And I would, you know, another element
of the crisis that I'll share with you.
696
:Well, well, even fresh air breaks, right?
697
:You had people who are on a
cruise ship who maybe didn't
698
:have balconies or windows.
699
:So we had to coordinate, how
do we get them out logistically
700
:to get out to fresh air?
701
:I mean, even that is an impromptu
thing that we had to manage.
702
:Like how can they do it?
703
:How far away should they be
walking between each other?
704
:Right.
705
:Getting guidance from the Japanese
ministry of health, WHO and all those
706
:partners, so I think we managed it so
well, but then the, you may have heard the
707
:state department decided we are going to
send a military aircraft to pick up all
708
:the Americans off the ship, because we
just think as a matter of precaution, it's
709
:better if they serve a new quarantine.
710
:In military bases on land in the U.
711
:S.
712
:So suddenly these passengers
were I think it was day 12.
713
:They thought they're almost done
They're told the americans are
714
:going to the military going to
pick them up Bring them to the u.
715
:s to military bases in california
and texas nebraska And they're
716
:going to need to serve an additional
two weeks of quarantine now.
717
:They don't have to go It was
recommended that they go.
718
:Yeah, most went several of those stayed
on the ship They said no, I don't want
719
:to go But most went on the plane and
then they flew to these military bases.
720
:So here's a question, John and Brian,
what is princesses cruises obligation to
721
:those passengers who have now been taken
off the ship and flown to military bases?
722
:You'd think it'd be over.
723
:You'd think it'd be over, right?
724
:When you fly on a flight, let's say
you fly to New York city, John, let's
725
:say I'm going to visit you in Philly.
726
:I take, let's say American
airlines, get off the plane.
727
:I'm in the airport in Philly.
728
:Is American Airlines
still accountable for me?
729
:No way!
730
:If I trip and fall in the airport, it's
not American Airlines fault, right?
731
:So one could argue as soon as they left
our ship, we've, we're done with those.
732
:Those are less people to
be worried about, right?
733
:But when you think about it,
they haven't gotten home yet.
734
:They're going to military bases and in the
memo written by the U S state department,
735
:they said, we will get you to the military
bases, but it's up to you to get home.
736
:Really?
737
:Oh yeah.
738
:That was in the memo.
739
:I have to admit, I was one that noticed
that and I said to the team, I think
740
:we need to stand up care teams to
work with the military to help take
741
:care of our guests and get them home.
742
:Wow.
743
:Gordon, I'm sorry.
744
:So one day you wake up and your job
is all about creating a fantastic,
745
:luxurious cruise experience.
746
:And the next day it's about how
to keep people alive, work with
747
:state departments, militaries.
748
:And, uh, World Health Organizations.
749
:How did you keep it together, man?
750
:Well, I think the whole
team did a remarkable job.
751
:One is, you know, we had great leaders.
752
:Jan Schwartz, who was running Princess
Cruises and really setting a good tone.
753
:In fact, there's a Harvard
Business Case Study that talks
754
:about how do you keep your cool.
755
:Right?
756
:Because the way you handle the
crisis, people can gather, right?
757
:If you're distressed, that
echoes throughout the room.
758
:If you're calm and collected and able to
make smart decisions, that also resonates.
759
:So I think that's a whole nother
case that I recommend you read.
760
:you know, we just, because we
had this common goal and we had,
761
:everybody was supporting each other.
762
:I will tell you a few people
found it too difficult.
763
:They said, I need a break.
764
:And we were, we understood it.
765
:We're glad that they were transparent.
766
:Because it was hard and, but we
did have just even fatigue, right?
767
:We set up a nap, nap room nearby.
768
:We brought in food every day.
769
:So people were fed and we did
have different things because
770
:when it was daytime in Japan, it
gave some relief for headquarters.
771
:So the Japan team could manage
locally what was going on.
772
:We would come in.
773
:And so when the captain needed
to do a press release during
774
:our time, we would write it.
775
:The captain would always make an
announcement to the ship at the same time
776
:Even if there was nothing to be said.
777
:Yeah our job in santa clarita California
was to make sure we said here's your
778
:announcement for the day or twice a day.
779
:It was important to have this pattern
this sequence of regular events.
780
:I think that helped us give us purpose.
781
:And then we also stood up different
leaders managing different
782
:components of the crisis.
783
:When we decided we were going to
help the military take care of our
784
:guests, I was the head of that team.
785
:So I enlisted my sales team in Texas
and California to go to the military
786
:bases and lend support there physically.
787
:And we were on the phone.
788
:We had daily calls with
the military bases.
789
:I'll tell you something funny.
790
:The passengers didn't know
where they were going.
791
:They weren't told.
792
:So we didn't know, nor did they, we
actually looked up on the internet,
793
:the phone numbers of the military
bases, called them up and said,
794
:Hey, you may have heard some of our
passengers are going to your base.
795
:We want to help you.
796
:Can we talk to your commanding officer?
797
:Literally.
798
:That's how we did it.
799
:Wow.
800
:And then they, and at first they
were skeptical, but then they said,
801
:you know what, we're going to keep
your passengers safe and healthy, but
802
:we're not very good at hospitality.
803
:We could use your help.
804
:And they agreed, and it
was a great partnership.
805
:It really was a great partnership.
806
:your own employees and staff on the
ship itself, , did any of them get sick?
807
:Oh, yes.
808
:I'm sure they're not prepared
to be able to manage.
809
:People under quarantine, like,
you know, for that long, I mean,
810
:I don't think anyone was prepared
the Japanese ministry of health.
811
:I mean, no, one's had to do a quarantine
of this scale for decades of any.
812
:And, so I'll, I'll say that
everyone, the crew was so courageous.
813
:The captain called the crew, his
gladiators, because he said, look at
814
:we're fighting a war and we're going
to win, and he actually said, you know,
815
:diamond princess, what is a diamond?
816
:And the diamond is, under pressure,
817
:so he says, we're going to be a diamond.
818
:We're under pressure, but we are
going to emerge as a diamond.
819
:Ultimately the crew was fantastic.
820
:You know, some of the crew, like I
mentioned, may have gotten stressed,
821
:et cetera, it was hard for them
because they were doing all the work.
822
:Think about room service, right?
823
:Suddenly you have to deliver meals to
almost:
824
:Think about the logistics of that.
825
:Cause that's not how
meals usually are done.
826
:People are eating meals in the
dining hall, on the pool deck
827
:or all these different places.
828
:But no, three, almost 3000 meals.
829
:And then you have dietary restrictions
that you got to manage for.
830
:Right.
831
:So you had so many things that they
were doing, but they were amazing.
832
:And ultimately the passengers
started to put notes outside
833
:of their door, expressing their
appreciation for the, the, the crew.
834
:And we actually took that as a sign
that says, Hey, we're going to To spread
835
:the happiness, we created a hashtag,
hang in there, diamond princess.
836
:And there was then a global movement
of support where people were
837
:creating content, music, songs,
et cetera, for people to see.
838
:So the crew understood how the world was
really appreciative of the hardships and
839
:the courage that they were exhibiting.
840
:Really is amazing.
841
:And so much to learn from this.
842
:I'll tell you the thing that's really
hitting me is in the face of constantly
843
:changing information and misinformation
and chaos that you are, you were able to
844
:create some predictability and routine.
845
:Seems like it did an awful lot
to get through that crisis.
846
:So cheers to you and cheers to your wife
for being smart enough to, Remind you
847
:of your personal connection to someone
at the World Health Organization.
848
:You want to hear from everybody.
849
:What ideas do we have?
850
:And I think that a leader in a crisis
needs to assimilate all the information.
851
:And, but they have to make
that courageous decision.
852
:That courageous decision may not be,
for example, what your legal team
853
:advises you, I mean, I mean, this
is where I'm not telling you to break
854
:the law, but obviously the business
affairs team may say, Hey, to reduce our
855
:liability, maybe we shouldn't do this,
but sometimes you may say, wait, wait,
856
:this is going to help solve the problem.
857
:We need to do this, so those are tough.
858
:Those are tough decisions that.
859
:And a leader needs to
have the courage to make.
860
:, Gordon, I remember years ago, and I think
the last time I saw you pre COVID, , it
861
:sounded like you had the greatest job in
the world, you know, traveling all over
862
:to build food programs with celebrity
chefs and cocktail nixologists.,
863
:Maybe tell us about one of those
highlights, because I'd love to hear
864
:about the shiny side of the experience.
865
:You know, I think there's, I think
a lot of people, because most people
866
:have never cruised before, and so this
is where a lot of cruising is really
867
:about growing the category, because a
lot of people misunderstand cruising.
868
:And it's just, it's a wonderful
category from a standpoint of building
869
:amazing experiences for vacations.
870
:And marketing them.
871
:Right.
872
:So I'll, you know, I'll tell you an
example of something that I think
873
:taken from my entertainment media
days from Disney, you know, I, you
874
:know, when you're doing marketing,
movies, whatever, you're always trying
875
:to find that, that positioning line.
876
:Right.
877
:And maybe like from the creators of Lion
King comes our next big motion picture.
878
:Right.
879
:Right.
880
:There's always IP.
881
:And so when we were trying
to figure out, , how do we
882
:reinvent maybe our entertainment?
883
:We have broadway style shows.
884
:We actually have kind of a big theater,
better than many broadway theaters.
885
:And, we were thinking about what
do we do because there's other
886
:ships that have broadway shows.
887
:You actually have mama mia
on Royal Caribbean, right?
888
:You have these broadway shows,
but it's expensive, right?
889
:You got to license them.
890
:So instead we said, look, why
don't we do borrowed equity?
891
:Could we get somebody to work with us?
892
:And so we were fortunate to have
gotten Stephen Schwartz, the creator of
893
:Pippin, Godspell, and of course, Wicked.
894
:We could say, you know, from the
creator of Wicked comes his next
895
:great Broadway musical premiering
exclusively on Princess Cruises.
896
:So when you think about movies
going direct to Netflix or at
897
:Disney, I was lucky enough to
help invent, direct to video.
898
:We now had Broadway shows from
the creator of Wicked going
899
:direct to Princess Cruises.
900
:Neat.
901
:Great.
902
:That's an example.
903
:And that gives you a marketing hook
for people who are interested in that.
904
:And we did also a partnership with
discovery channel where we brought
905
:experiences, like we had the deadliest
catch tour in Alaska exclusively on
906
:princess cruises, because we had a
partnership with discovery and their
907
:sister division, animal planet.
908
:So that allowed us to create
these amazing branded experiences.
909
:Very cool.
910
:I'm trying to imagine Brian's
reaction when I told him he just
911
:got the job where he has to go, find
the entertainment and the desserts
912
:and the cocktails for a cruise.
913
:I think all over the world.
914
:I think his head.
915
:I mean, cocktails are big.
916
:our cocktail mixologist, He,
created these amazing cocktails.
917
:And a lot of them were destination theme.
918
:Cause we always were like
to try to embrace the local
919
:destinations that we went to.
920
:So, our wine program, our cocktail
program, our, chocolate program,
921
:our, our bed, we created a new bed.
922
:We hired one of the best sleep experts
to create our Prince's luxury bed because
923
:people go on vacation to relax and sleep.
924
:So we wanted to make sure they
had the best sleep on vacation.
925
:It got so popular we had to sell our beds
because people said, can I buy this thing?
926
:That's crazy.
927
:Who knew you had to think
of a chocolate program.
928
:That's the news to me learning
so much today Yeah chocolate.
929
:I mean think about chocolate, right?
930
:If you look at our one of our core
targets of women who often help drive
931
:the vacation That's one of the few
indulgences they give themselves is
932
:chocolate We actually did surveys, right?
933
:We actually asked, so I apologies
for your listeners, but we asked
934
:women and men the same question.
935
:Would you give up chocolate
or would you give up sex?
936
:And you can imagine the answer.
937
:Women were different than the
answer than what men gave.
938
:That's because they have to
sleep with men sometimes.
939
:So, , can you talk a little bit about
how, , technology, , transformed
940
:that, that guest experience over
the years while you were there?
941
:Cause I can only imagine
the types of strides that.
942
:you were able to make and incorporate
into the, the cruise experience that
943
:hadn't traditionally been there.
944
:I think the biggest thing is what,
John, you mentioned earlier, the
945
:Ocean Medallion smart wearable.
946
:that was really advanced
and continues to be right.
947
:You would wear it.
948
:It would sync to the, an app on
your phone, as well as all these
949
:various, sensors on the ship.
950
:So we would know.
951
:All sorts of things to personalize
our vacation experience for you.
952
:So you could check in on the ship quicker.
953
:You could open your, your
room with your medallion.
954
:You could order things and
things would be delivered to you.
955
:So you don't have to be at
the bar to order a drink.
956
:I mean, I would say it's a bar wherever
you are, or since I'm from Wisconsin.
957
:You know, and I come from
Milwaukee, a beer is always near.
958
:How's that?
959
:And, and, and I think that's one of,
these are the things where technology
960
:and smart technology can improve
the experience because it was saving
961
:you time and time is what you want.
962
:That's the most precious
commodity on vacation, right?
963
:Whether it's, I don't want to spend
10 minutes going to the bar waiting
964
:and coming back to my, my lounge.
965
:Not don't have to, we'll deliver
a drink to you wherever you are.
966
:That's amazing.
967
:Was it something that you were able
to implement pretty quickly once
968
:it was ready, like how do you make
sure that like that is cruise ready?
969
:Because I can imagine that, minimum
viable products, versus the full
970
:reality is a difficult long run.
971
:Yeah, Brian, you're right.
972
:It took time.
973
:I mean, it was, I would
say it was a soft rollout.
974
:And it just gradually, because there
was clearly just like with any initial
975
:rollout, there's going to be some,
things that aren't working perfectly.
976
:So you have to constantly
try to refine it.
977
:So it took time to get it to a place
where you felt, you know, every,
978
:every month, it made a difference in
terms of how well it was operating,
979
:meeting expectations and so forth.
980
:so, yeah, it was quite the learning
curve because it is very advanced
981
:in terms of that smart wearable.
982
:So good point.
983
:Brian and I always talk about marketing.
984
:We love marketing and this podcast is
about how brands position themselves.
985
:It seems like when you ask someone
about cruising, there's kind of
986
:like two kinds of people out there.
987
:Those who say they love cruises and
those who say they will never go on one.
988
:Did you market?
989
:Cruises to people who
were those kind of nevers.
990
:And if so, how did you do it?
991
:Yeah, John, good question.
992
:So part of it is, you know, the
people who said, Oh, I get seasick.
993
:And we try to educate them.
994
:Look at what, what you experience a
seasickness rarely happens on the ship
995
:because it's so big and all these things.
996
:But the common thing is
just misunderstanding.
997
:Like they said, yeah, a lot
of people were, I would do it.
998
:I just haven't needed to because
they are just doing land vacations.
999
:Right.
:
00:45:45,985 --> 00:45:49,705
So one of the things that we came up
with was this idea is there's cruise
:
00:45:49,705 --> 00:45:52,534
vacations that you can only do on ocean.
:
00:45:52,544 --> 00:45:53,924
You can't do it on land.
:
00:45:54,074 --> 00:45:55,784
Give me an example, Panama canal.
:
00:45:55,784 --> 00:45:59,904
If you want to go through the Panama
canal, you got to do it through a cruise.
:
00:45:59,904 --> 00:46:01,964
And it's one of the
greatest man made wonders.
:
00:46:01,964 --> 00:46:03,334
It's amazing to go through the locks.
:
00:46:03,429 --> 00:46:07,149
Alaska, really the best way to
see Alaska is through a cruise.
:
00:46:07,334 --> 00:46:07,654
Yeah.
:
00:46:07,820 --> 00:46:08,130
Right.
:
00:46:08,195 --> 00:46:12,155
And so we created with Condé Nast
Traveler what we called the seven
:
00:46:12,155 --> 00:46:13,035
cruise wonders of the world.
:
00:46:13,162 --> 00:46:13,402
Right.
:
00:46:13,402 --> 00:46:19,382
The idea that these are vacations that
pretty much exclusively are better or only
:
00:46:19,382 --> 00:46:21,302
available through an ocean based cruise.
:
00:46:21,302 --> 00:46:24,752
So people would read this article on
Condé Nast and say, oh my goodness.
:
00:46:24,842 --> 00:46:26,922
We really should do the
Panama Canal cruise.
:
00:46:26,922 --> 00:46:30,272
You've always like, you know,
you're big into engineering things.
:
00:46:30,282 --> 00:46:31,182
Let's go check it out.
:
00:46:31,192 --> 00:46:33,112
Or I'd love to see wildlife.
:
00:46:33,132 --> 00:46:34,862
Let's go on an Alaska cruise.
:
00:46:34,902 --> 00:46:35,192
Right?
:
00:46:35,252 --> 00:46:39,062
You know, those are the type of things
that we would help promote through that.
:
00:46:39,102 --> 00:46:41,322
So that's an example of us trying to grow.
:
00:46:41,347 --> 00:46:42,474
The cruise never's.
:
00:46:42,474 --> 00:46:47,034
The other thing we would do is we promoted
celebrations because John and Brian,
:
00:46:47,044 --> 00:46:50,334
you may be say, Oh, I'm indifferent, but
I haven't had a need, but let's say I
:
00:46:50,344 --> 00:46:52,794
said, you know, Hey guys, I'm retiring.
:
00:46:52,794 --> 00:46:54,824
I would like you to join me on a cruise.
:
00:46:54,844 --> 00:46:56,014
We've got a great rate.
:
00:46:56,061 --> 00:46:57,881
It's just a three day short cruise.
:
00:46:57,901 --> 00:47:01,321
Please come join me on this
great retirement, shindig.
:
00:47:01,384 --> 00:47:02,164
You might go.
:
00:47:02,214 --> 00:47:03,094
Yeah, we're in.
:
00:47:03,167 --> 00:47:03,567
We're in.
:
00:47:04,157 --> 00:47:09,194
This is where celebrations are a great
way to get newbies to come aboard, right?
:
00:47:09,194 --> 00:47:12,374
Someone's having a honeymoon
or an anniversary, a retirement
:
00:47:12,374 --> 00:47:13,461
party, whatever it is.
:
00:47:13,567 --> 00:47:21,077
Brian, I am hereby inviting you and Gordon
to take a celebratory cruise when Snap
:
00:47:21,077 --> 00:47:23,207
Decisions makes this one millionth dollar.
:
00:47:25,862 --> 00:47:27,632
We'll do a live broadcast from the ship.
:
00:47:27,872 --> 00:47:28,472
There we go..
:
00:47:28,656 --> 00:47:31,236
I'd love to hear a little bit
about your time at Disney and,
:
00:47:31,236 --> 00:47:32,496
what that experience was like.
:
00:47:32,496 --> 00:47:35,596
It seemed like the larger part of
your earlier career was from there.
:
00:47:36,006 --> 00:47:37,296
Disney was 18 years.
:
00:47:37,296 --> 00:47:38,366
It was wonderful.
:
00:47:38,451 --> 00:47:41,751
You know, I will tell many people who
asked me about like what they recommend
:
00:47:41,751 --> 00:47:44,721
in terms of careers and jobs, you know,
obviously find something you're passionate
:
00:47:44,721 --> 00:47:48,241
about, find something ideally you're
good at, but if you can find a market
:
00:47:48,241 --> 00:47:51,241
that's growing, right, there's just more
opportunities when it's growing and the
:
00:47:51,241 --> 00:47:55,581
home entertainment market was exploding
with people buying videos, buying DVDs.
:
00:47:55,581 --> 00:47:58,491
But then of course, there was a road
bump when people eventually transitioned
:
00:47:58,501 --> 00:48:00,221
from ownership to access, right?
:
00:48:00,221 --> 00:48:03,381
But for the years I was there,
it was mostly rapid growth.
:
00:48:03,401 --> 00:48:04,391
It was, it was great.
:
00:48:04,391 --> 00:48:04,701
When.
:
00:48:04,772 --> 00:48:08,642
you were working from people like with
ABC and we, we made lost one of the best
:
00:48:08,642 --> 00:48:11,232
selling TV box sets of all time, right?
:
00:48:11,232 --> 00:48:15,969
That was amazing to, animation working
with the Pixar people and Steve jobs
:
00:48:15,969 --> 00:48:20,389
on finding Nemo and toy story to, the
people at the Disney channel, high
:
00:48:20,389 --> 00:48:25,559
school musical was a huge seller on DVD
to of course, pirates of the Caribbean
:
00:48:25,559 --> 00:48:27,169
and Disney live action movies, right?
:
00:48:27,169 --> 00:48:28,629
It was amazing how.
:
00:48:28,746 --> 00:48:32,046
There was all this consumption and
people wanted to have their library.
:
00:48:32,046 --> 00:48:34,786
And of course, from a marketing
standpoint, there was this idea that
:
00:48:34,796 --> 00:48:38,682
hurry, get the Lion King before it
goes back into the Disney vault.
:
00:48:38,709 --> 00:48:43,459
Yes, and this is and I will give credit
to roy disney He came up with the idea
:
00:48:43,479 --> 00:48:47,626
or theatrical back I think in:because they needed money So they said
:
00:48:47,626 --> 00:48:52,366
let's bring back snow white into theaters
So we we copied that but what we did is
:
00:48:52,366 --> 00:48:54,436
we added this concept of a disney vault.
:
00:48:54,446 --> 00:48:57,254
We actually Created a
vault that slammed shut.
:
00:48:57,254 --> 00:49:02,084
So in our commercial, Ariel would swim
into the vault and we would slam shut.
:
00:49:02,184 --> 00:49:06,044
And you don't want to be that bad
parent that prevents your kids from
:
00:49:06,044 --> 00:49:08,884
experiencing Sebastian founder and Ariel.
:
00:49:08,974 --> 00:49:09,304
Right.
:
00:49:09,457 --> 00:49:10,257
So that was great.
:
00:49:10,257 --> 00:49:13,657
And of course that doesn't work as well
now with everything being accessible,
:
00:49:13,657 --> 00:49:17,587
but back then, oh my goodness, our
disappearing classics campaign was huge.
:
00:49:17,751 --> 00:49:18,640
Yeah, gee, thanks.
:
00:49:18,641 --> 00:49:19,341
Thanks, Gordon.
:
00:49:19,381 --> 00:49:19,691
Thanks.
:
00:49:19,691 --> 00:49:20,231
Yeah, sorry.
:
00:49:20,641 --> 00:49:21,261
Sorry, John.
:
00:49:21,601 --> 00:49:25,271
But those, those were examples of things
that were so much fun creating those
:
00:49:25,271 --> 00:49:29,357
type of things, did a lot of testing
with packaging, because we would test
:
00:49:29,357 --> 00:49:32,837
our packages and see which ones would pop
off the shelf that people want to buy.
:
00:49:32,929 --> 00:49:36,319
And then even, and I mentioned to you,
inventing direct to video was, was quite
:
00:49:36,319 --> 00:49:39,619
the thing that we're very proud of, which
made a lot of money for the company.
:
00:49:39,696 --> 00:49:42,736
And the last thing I would say is
recognizing that we needed data
:
00:49:42,746 --> 00:49:47,116
because most of the data for movies
were with the, with the theater chains
:
00:49:47,116 --> 00:49:49,016
like AMC or they're with Walmart.
:
00:49:49,037 --> 00:49:52,527
So we decided to create our own loyalty
program, Disney Movie Rewards, and that
:
00:49:52,527 --> 00:49:56,091
allowed us to have a huge database of
millions of people, which have then was
:
00:49:56,091 --> 00:49:57,851
used as a foundation for Disney Plus.
:
00:49:57,861 --> 00:50:01,331
So I'm very proud that we come, we came
up with that loyalty program because
:
00:50:01,331 --> 00:50:05,011
data is the new digital gold, if you
say so a little bit of some of the
:
00:50:05,011 --> 00:50:07,841
things that we worked on that, that
very proud of the teams and what we
:
00:50:07,851 --> 00:50:11,531
were able to do during a category that
was growing rapidly until it didn't.
:
00:50:11,802 --> 00:50:12,212
Yeah.
:
00:50:12,366 --> 00:50:12,566
Yeah.
:
00:50:12,606 --> 00:50:16,756
Well, I think that's a good lesson
for, for any marketer is just, not
:
00:50:16,756 --> 00:50:20,196
being afraid to evolve and change
before it changes you, you know.
:
00:50:20,346 --> 00:50:20,406
Yeah.
:
00:50:21,219 --> 00:50:21,429
Yep.
:
00:50:21,672 --> 00:50:24,252
Guys, it was a pleasure
talking to you, John.
:
00:50:24,252 --> 00:50:25,122
Fine, thank you so much.
:
00:50:25,122 --> 00:50:26,982
You, your, your students are so lucky.
:
00:50:27,072 --> 00:50:28,362
It's no, you're so high.
:
00:50:28,362 --> 00:50:30,042
You are truly a masterclass.
:
00:50:30,042 --> 00:50:32,322
I feel like we can do this
all day, and learn from you.
:
00:50:32,532 --> 00:50:34,879
So, your, you're so well,
we'll do a part two.
:
00:50:34,939 --> 00:50:35,479
That's fine.
:
00:50:35,484 --> 00:50:36,799
We'll, we'll look forward to it.
:
00:50:36,799 --> 00:50:39,769
But guys, congratulations on
your podcast, and it was a lot
:
00:50:39,769 --> 00:50:40,999
of fun talking to you guys.
:
00:50:40,999 --> 00:50:41,119
Awesome.
:
00:50:41,379 --> 00:50:41,769
Thanks, Gordon.
:
00:50:41,769 --> 00:50:42,699
Thank you very much.
:
00:50:42,699 --> 00:50:43,449
We appreciate it.
:
00:50:43,629 --> 00:50:44,469
You guys take care.
:
00:50:44,469 --> 00:50:44,742
All right.
:
00:50:44,757 --> 00:50:44,957
All right.
:
00:50:49,033 --> 00:50:54,456
Well, John, Gordon, just brought so
much intelligence and, great examples.
:
00:50:54,510 --> 00:50:55,660
just fantastic.
:
00:50:55,990 --> 00:51:00,430
Example after example of just
amazing what they had to figure out.
:
00:51:00,463 --> 00:51:00,813
Yeah.
:
00:51:00,850 --> 00:51:01,170
Yeah.
:
00:51:01,170 --> 00:51:04,620
And the attention to detail to
me, that's such a huge thing.
:
00:51:04,620 --> 00:51:07,800
And, the big learning I got out
of it was just how prepared he was.
:
00:51:09,465 --> 00:51:13,355
And you know, anybody could be
in a, in a position of being in a
:
00:51:13,355 --> 00:51:16,835
crisis one day, but just staying
ahead of the game is so important.
:
00:51:16,835 --> 00:51:19,855
And it's hard, so hard to see that
sometimes when you're kind of in the
:
00:51:19,865 --> 00:51:21,535
middle of your job day to day, but.
:
00:51:21,705 --> 00:51:25,138
You really need to be able to, prepare for
any type of situation that might pop up.
:
00:51:25,328 --> 00:51:25,658
Yeah.
:
00:51:25,838 --> 00:51:26,098
Yeah.
:
00:51:26,098 --> 00:51:29,258
And even though the way it
unfolded, there's no way they could
:
00:51:29,258 --> 00:51:30,418
have prepared for all of that.
:
00:51:30,718 --> 00:51:33,458
There's no way they could have done
what they did if they hadn't prepared.
:
00:51:33,668 --> 00:51:37,911
I also loved the, the, the notion that
they were able to share best practices
:
00:51:37,911 --> 00:51:41,461
with the industry, because to his
point, that's not good for anybody.
:
00:51:41,621 --> 00:51:45,945
If there's calamity happening, across,
you know, an entire section of tourism,
:
00:51:45,945 --> 00:51:50,025
especially with the way that everything
was unfolding during that time.
:
00:51:50,025 --> 00:51:51,325
everything was falling apart.
:
00:51:51,325 --> 00:51:53,641
So the fact that, they're able
to share how to get through
:
00:51:53,641 --> 00:51:54,961
this that's the right thing to
:
00:51:54,961 --> 00:51:55,301
Do.
:
00:51:56,561 --> 00:51:57,431
. interesting.
:
00:51:57,951 --> 00:52:00,971
Hopefully, hopelessly
unattainable guests for you, John.
:
00:52:01,751 --> 00:52:04,351
I think it's somebody that
we need to be talking to.
:
00:52:04,381 --> 00:52:09,871
We can gain some intelligence on
business and, financial acumen.
:
00:52:09,981 --> 00:52:13,755
And, the person that, I'm reaching
out to here is Warren Buffett.
:
00:52:13,901 --> 00:52:14,981
Oh, good.
:
00:52:15,011 --> 00:52:15,301
Yeah.
:
00:52:15,455 --> 00:52:15,935
Good one.
:
00:52:16,035 --> 00:52:18,545
So, here's my letter to Warren Buffett.
:
00:52:18,841 --> 00:52:20,428
Dear Warren, help.
:
00:52:20,556 --> 00:52:24,386
Please help us understand how
you became an investment genius.
:
00:52:24,426 --> 00:52:27,330
We want to know, no, we need to know Mr.
:
00:52:27,330 --> 00:52:32,280
Oracle of Omaha, your 45 steps ahead
of everyone else, your patience and
:
00:52:32,290 --> 00:52:36,440
perseverance in the market and in
people exudes leadership and confidence.
:
00:52:36,513 --> 00:52:38,563
We believe in you and your actions.
:
00:52:38,573 --> 00:52:41,203
So help us learn on our
podcast, snap decisions.
:
00:52:41,223 --> 00:52:44,733
We'd love to go back to the
beginning, how you found inspiration
:
00:52:44,743 --> 00:52:48,503
in the:ways to make a thousand dollars.
:
00:52:48,503 --> 00:52:51,896
All that business acumen you gain
from your jobs and your youth, how you
:
00:52:51,896 --> 00:52:55,940
place pinball machines in local barber
shops, how you graduated early from the
:
00:52:55,940 --> 00:53:01,433
in:you were a millionaire by the early 1960s
:
00:53:02,073 --> 00:53:03,873
and a billionaire by the mid eighties.
:
00:53:04,128 --> 00:53:07,198
But we want to know about the famous
long game you play, the trust you
:
00:53:07,198 --> 00:53:11,125
place in a stock's value, in the people
that run companies, how you're able
:
00:53:11,125 --> 00:53:14,695
to cut through the pressure and the
noise and operate on simple terms.
:
00:53:15,005 --> 00:53:18,725
You're unlike anyone, and you're
still going strong today at 93.
:
00:53:18,941 --> 00:53:23,885
Let's talk on Zoom or at that
Omaha house that you have::
00:53:25,085 --> 00:53:28,125
What has and hasn't changed
in the life of Warren Buffett.
:
00:53:28,458 --> 00:53:30,638
Our giant base of listeners
want to hear about it.
:
00:53:30,835 --> 00:53:32,715
Let us know a time that works for you.
:
00:53:32,765 --> 00:53:35,775
Feel free to send your
jet or horse and buggy.
:
00:53:35,918 --> 00:53:37,348
Thanks, Brian and John.
:
00:53:38,658 --> 00:53:39,238
Wow.
:
00:53:39,415 --> 00:53:40,095
That's a good one.
:
00:53:40,281 --> 00:53:43,381
We need to get Warren into the
top of the queue here in terms of
:
00:53:43,708 --> 00:53:44,968
Our hopelessly unattainable guest.
:
00:53:44,968 --> 00:53:48,631
We need to get to him
first because he's 93.
:
00:53:48,631 --> 00:53:51,878
We better hurry.
:
00:53:53,878 --> 00:53:54,358
Indeed.
:
00:53:54,578 --> 00:53:57,598
Although he strikes me as someone who may
actually keep going for quite a while.
:
00:53:57,808 --> 00:54:00,665
Yeah, yeah, he seems, like
he's gonna defeat time.
:
00:54:01,135 --> 00:54:03,545
All right, well, it's a race
between him and Jason Kelsey,
:
00:54:03,565 --> 00:54:05,155
so let's, let's see what we got.
:
00:54:06,935 --> 00:54:07,385
Let's do it.
:
00:54:07,685 --> 00:54:11,425
All right, well thanks, good
episode, loved, loved hearing, from
:
00:54:11,425 --> 00:54:14,625
Gordon, , liked talking to you about
Boeing, and, till next time, eh?
:
00:54:14,785 --> 00:54:15,935
Yeah, let's shut it down.
:
00:54:16,295 --> 00:54:17,635
All right, bye.
:
00:54:17,715 --> 00:54:17,815
See ya.