Cruisin’ Through a Crisis: Xpertainment CEO Gordon Ho

John: 00:00:05

Well, good morning, Brian.

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Morning, John.

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How are you?

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I am, the sun is shining, the

birds are singing, and I am happy.

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I like to hear that.

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I like to hear that.

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It's beautiful out.

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Yes.

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The weather is beautiful.

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And, I think it sets the stage

nicely for talking about,

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things going wrong and crisis.

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Oh gosh.

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The theme of today's episode.

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Yikes.

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How's that for a kickoff?

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Yeah.

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Let's get into it.

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Let's do it.

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All right.

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I don't think there's a bigger

corporate crisis we could talk

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about right now, more than Boeing.

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Correct..

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Yeah.

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So obviously no stranger to, um,

crisis the last couple of years.

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It really came to a head in January.

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When one of their planes with Alaska

airlines, a Boeing max nine was forced

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to make an emergency landing after a door

plug fell off a few minutes after takeoff.

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And the images of that were just shocking.

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Shocking.

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And everywhere.

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Yeah, that's the thing with video is

that, uh, you know, if that didn't

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have the accompanying video, uh,

it wouldn't probably be anywhere

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near as much noise as it is.

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So that incident, sent shockwaves

to millions of travelers.

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sent off a ton of red flags with

regulators and, and their partners.

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And,, Boeing's trust has

probably never been lower than

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it is right now with the public.

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Like I mentioned this is far from

the first issue with a Boeing max

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plane in the last few years, in 2018

and: 2019

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uh, 346 people died in plane crashes.

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So there's been a lot of, attention

on Boeing, to fix a lot of issues

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with their planes and this latest

incident in January, is not making

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this go away for them . After their,

planes were grounded by the FAA.

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they found the door plug was missing

four bolts that fell off and a number

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of other planes, were showing that

bolts were loosened and, not tightened.

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And, so they've been going

through an auditing and inspection

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process with all their planes.

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And then, you know, more recently in

March, there's been some significant

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executive changes there as well.

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One of the things that they've been

trying to do is present a series of

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steps to provide transparency and,

and, and show that they're taking

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some accountability as a company.

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Mm-Hmm.

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, on their website specifically, you

know, they're pushing people to a,

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a microsite section that, Has all

the information on the incident.

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There's a four minute video of their

ceo addressing employees at a team town

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hall about the importance of safety,

importance of getting this moment, right?

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And how they'll handle it as a company.

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and they also have a detailed timeline

of statements and media clips responding

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to reports, action plans and other

relevant news surrounding this crisis.

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. So they're trying to, to get out there

and take accountability for the situation.

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and not shy away from the public.

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But, as we all know, it's, an

extremely long road for a company

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like that, if they can ever gain back

trust, especially in a situation where

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people's lives are at stake and, people

have died as a result of their actions

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and, there's been a lot of safety

concerns the last few years in general,

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and this certainly doesn't help that.

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So John, my question and snap decision for

you, or, you know, what are your thoughts

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on how Boeing has handled this situation?

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And what is the mindset that needs to

be instilled in communication teams

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and marketers in situations like these?

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If you're working for that

company and you're a marketer or a

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communications person, when is the,

the, when's the timing right to

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get back to promoting your company?

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Well, that last part's tricky.

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The first part about how Boeing

handled it, I think they've

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done some things really well.

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Yeah, I think it was great.

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Like you mentioned that they

released an internal video, you know,

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things the CEO is saying to the

employee base right after the accident.

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I think that's, that's great.

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kind of shows a little

bit of transparency.

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Yes, they took some accountability.

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I don't feel like they announced a

whole lot of concrete steps, like

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things that they're going to do.

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And they talked about, you know,

how safety needs to become a greater

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priority, but I don't think they

really outlined an action plan quickly.

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good that the CEO, , has stepped down,

That's, I think an important step to

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indicate that you're going to change

the culture of the company, because

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frankly, in the wake of this most recent

thing, there's been an increasing, bit

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of, volume around the idea that perhaps

Boeing has sacrificed safety over

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share price for a bunch of years now.

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Ironic, because the share price for

the past five years has declined.

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Not done particularly well, so it

hasn't worked, but, you know, the

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CEO and the CEO before him, I believe

focused on cost cutting hasn't

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really led to, great stock results.

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And at the same time, it seems

like safety's taken a big hit.

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So, yeah, they had to make that big change

in terms of when it's good to get back.

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Look, the trust is huge and

it's hard to measure that.

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I know there are.

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Trust indices out there.

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I think there are a few

things that have to happen.

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One, you need to have some very

clear,, steps that you've communicated.

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I think you need to start

to see those steps be.

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Reflected back to you where other

people are repeating the steps

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that you're taking to fix things.

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so obviously there's, you know, the

standard social media monitoring.

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You do the PR monitoring.

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1 thing that struck me was,

have you seen the kayak?

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The travel site and app

they had previously had.

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filter where you could look

at your flights and you could

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filter out types of aircraft.

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Like if you don't want to fly a,

uh, an Airbus or a, a 737 Max, you

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could, you could select those out.

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They've moved that up.

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Since they moved that up

higher in the navigation.

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So have you seen that tool?

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No, I have not.

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It's pretty wild.

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So that will be an indicator to me,

like over time, if fewer people are

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opting out of flying your plane that

had an incident, maybe that shows that

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people have either kind of, you know,

regained some trust or forgotten.

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Frankly, that happens all the time, right?

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People forget stuff.

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Yeah.

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So I think that's, those are the kinds of

things they've got to pay attention to.

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They've got to see that the public is

starting to show indicators of buying

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into whatever the very specific and

transparent plan they've put out there is.

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Yeah.

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It's a, it's going to be a long road.

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I did see in the news, recently

that, their defense system that they

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were partnering with Israel on, uh,

helped defend against the attack

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from Iran, which, it doesn't support

the commercial airline business,

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but it does, put some good news in

Boeing's hands for the land itself,.

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So, that is probably something that

would make sense to promote, but not,

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not be a direct hit on the commercial

airline business, which would You

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know, clearly they're nowhere near

ready to, you know, be talking about

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good things that they're doing.

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I was looking at a bunch of corporate

crises, you know, PR issues,

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over the past 20 years or so.

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and it is interesting how quickly

I've forgotten some of them.

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Yeah.

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Uh, I have a, I have a, uh, snap

decision lightning round for you.

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All right.

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All right.

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So the question to you, Brian,

is which of these two PR crises.

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Would you have preferred to handle?

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They're all PR nightmares.

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Okay.

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I'm gonna start with a couple

that kind of unfolded on YouTube.

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One, the Comcast technician who

fell asleep on a customer's couch

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while waiting on hold for his own

company to answer his phone call.

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Or the Domino's pizza scandal in

: 2009

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a very disturbing video of them

tampering with a customer's food.

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So which of those, which of those would

have been a bigger nightmare to handle?

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I think I'm going with the

Comcast on the couch guy.

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Yeah.

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I don't want to be thinking about

what happened with the pizza dough

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while I'm eating the product.

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So wait, you'd rather handle

the Comcast ignition guy?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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You'd rather handle that one.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Which one would you rather

handle between these two?

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The BP oil spill in 2010, following the

Deepwater Horizon oil rig, uh, explosion.

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Yeah.

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or the Volkswagen diesel gate emissions

scandal in: 2015

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having cheat software in its, in its

cars, that led to a really big recall

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and 4 billion in penalties eventually.

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Which would you have rather handled?

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I think I'd rather handle the VW one.

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the oil one.

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Yeah.

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I mean, that was just, you remember

like the oil wouldn't stop for like.

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I didn't fully remember.

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I knew it was a while, but it poured

in for three months to your point.

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I mean, there was just like,

there was no stopping it.

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And the amount of damage that did to

the planet is probably so significant.

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We can't even think about it, but I

would not want to be in or near that one.

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Yeah, and 11 people died,

which I didn't remember that.

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Oh, I didn't remember that.

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Yeah, 11 people died.

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and yeah, the, the, just the images coming

out of that just didn't stop for a while.

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So yeah, I, I'm with you on that one.

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all right.

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Would you have rather handled the Samsung

Note seven battery issues in: 2016

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where phones just kept catching fire or

when United Airlines overbooked a flight

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and called her in a security guard to

drag an elderly doctor off the plane?

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Ooh.

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I would probably choose the,

the airlines scandal because.

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It's mostly a singular incident,

whereas the phone's blowing

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up could affect more people.

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I mean, there's no, there's no Yeah, okay.

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, pick the less, more terrible one.

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Exactly.

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Alright, well, speaking of that,

all of them, in my mind, pale

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to a PR crisis that faced, , the

guest we're going to turn to now.

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Oh, can't wait.

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ALL: Alright, so Brian, I am really

happy to introduce an old friend,

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a guy I met when we were serving

on a nonprofit board together,

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John: Gordon Ho.

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Today, he is CEO of a strategy

consulting firm, Expertainment, and he

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also serves as an adjunct professor at

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both Georgetown and USC, where

he teaches marketing, crisis

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strategy, and product management.

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We're going to talk to him about

that crisis strategy piece a bit.

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he's worked at and advised

for several tech startups.

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He's also worked for some really big

brands, Disney and Princess Cruises.

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At Disney Studios, he oversaw the

3 billion, billion with a B, direct

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to video category, including digital

and DVD slash Blu ray business.

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As well as Disney's movie

rewards loyalty program.

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More recently, he was CMO and head of

sales at Princess Cruises, where he

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launched the Discovery at Sea partnership,

and the Ocean Medallion launch, which

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was considered the number one travel

Internet of Things wearable device.

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And the reason we want to talk to him

today is he was responsible for one

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of the most challenging, corporate

communications issues I can imagine

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during the Diamond Princess COVID crisis.,

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Gordon's on the board of, the Coalition

of Asian Pacifics and Entertainment

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and, on the board of the Ronald

McDonald House of Southern California.

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He is super smart, he's really

fun, and he is, Brian, one of the

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nicest people you'll ever meet.

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Please say hi to Gordon Ho

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.

ALL: Well, thank you, John, for that intro.

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I'm flattered and happy to be here.

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Well, we are thrilled you're here.

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Sorry, it was a little long, but you've

got a, you've got a long resume, pal.

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so Brian, I've been talking about, um,

corporate crises and how marketers and

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communicators can prepare themselves

and respond when something goes wrong.

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, in particular, we were talking about

how Boeing, , has been facing an

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awful lot of struggles recently.

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There've been, some people have

kind of congratulated them for the

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way they've handled the crisis.

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Others have come out really

strongly against them.

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How would you suggest Boeing respond

to recent events, or how they should

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respond to what's been going on with them?

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Yeah, it's, it's interesting.

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I think you have to go back in

history a little bit on Boeing

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because, you know, this, this all

stemmed from a lot of culture.

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I think has been a big part of it, right?

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You had Boeing, which was very engineering

technology, arguably safety focus.

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But then with the 1997 merger

with McDonnell Douglas.

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That changed, right?

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Cause you had a lot of executives

at McDonnell Douglas who

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applied and nothing wrong.

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I mean the shareholder return

affordability, but those

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principles took over the

engineering first type of culture.

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And I think you hear when you

talk to a lot of people at Boeing

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people in engineering, There is

this sense that, hey, I'm afraid

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to speak up because of retaliation.

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And you also had this

symbolic thing, right?

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You had Boeing move their

headquarters to Chicago away from

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Seattle where the engineers were.

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So that's a sentiment of like,

okay, what are you prioritizing?

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And of course, the big thing

that happened in 18 and 19

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were the two 737 MAX 8 crashes.

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And one could arguably, they prioritized

profits over safety because they

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did not tell people about the new

features that were on the plane.

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They said, Hey, this is

just like the other 737 Max.

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Just a few things that you

don't have to worry about.

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Well, the fact is you had to

worry about it and they didn't.

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And one of the things they set

forth was that there is no new

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simulator training that is needed.

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And that drove a lot of what they,

I guess narrow minded focus, which

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of course led to pilots maybe not

being exposed to the training and

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features that they should have been.

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In this case, where you have this, door

plug blowout, one could, I think they're

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still looking at it, but I think the

fact is there could be some of the same

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thing, which is, In a focus to get out

and catch up maybe from some of the

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lost sails as a result of what happened

in '18-19', they may have prioritized

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schedules and delivery of, jets and planes

over the prioritization of safety checks.

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And the report from the FAA just came

out that seemed to say, hey, look at,

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and this was the, this was the study

that started in 20 as a result of the

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plane crashes, and they concluded.

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Number one, there is still this fear

of retaliation, if you speak up.

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Number two, the safety procedures

change so frequently, it's

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hard for the people to keep up,

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so I think there's the conclusion that

Boeing has a lot of work to do still,

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and hopefully they're on that mend.

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To your question about what they've

done to date, the fact that Calhoun,

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the CEO resigned, I think was an

important symbolic gesture that

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you have new management coming in.

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If you remember Calhoun was the chairman

of the board when the two plane crashes

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and all the fatalities happened.

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So that was a lot of people

say, wait a minute, that seems

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like a continuity of management.

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But now of course he's gone.

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So I think a lot of the continuity

that happened in 18, 19, at least

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symbolically with Calhoun leaving.

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That is maybe a change in direction.

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Let's hope.

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and we'll see what,

what else they recover.

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and it's hard because you

have a duopoly, right?

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With Boeing and Airbus.

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And so when Airbus says, Hey, we have a

new lighter, faster fuel efficient plane.

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There is this huge pressure

for Boeing to react.

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That's what happened with

the Boeing seven 37 max.

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And it seems like maybe just maybe that.

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They went too fast, and you're

seeing this ongoing repercussions.

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Yeah, I think the thing that struck

me, in looking at some of the, some

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of the reporting was exactly one of

the things you highlighted, this idea

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that, When they came out with that

new plane, there was a pretty strong

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insistence from Boeing that pilots didn't

need to turn themselves with a new,

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a new system and do that simulation.

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And, and, and that's the one that

really struck me is like, it seemed

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like they were trying to just.

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Sell units and, really not

focused on the safety piece.

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So that's struck out and John, and

John specifically to build on that

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there, one of the biggest customers

was Southwest airlines Southwest said,

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look it, we don't want our pilots to

have to go through simulator training.

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So to make that sale,

they committed to it.

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So that was a customer commitment.

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And they actually said, if you require

additional training, we will pay you.

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I think it was a million

dollars per plane.

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So that was the discussion

throughout Boeing.

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We are not going to pay that.

318

: 00:14:47

There is no training even, and that's,

and that, that what's happened in

319

: 00:14:50

blinds you, because that becomes the

edict, that's governing your decisions.

320

: 00:14:54

So, so how do you, as a marketer

or, , a communications person, how

321

: 00:14:59

do you handle yourself in a situation

like that and, and how do you make a

322

: 00:15:02

recommendations to leadership teams

that clearly have made mistakes?

323

: 00:15:06

If you don't have a culture of

allowing people to speak up, having

324

: 00:15:10

management that's supportive, right?

325

: 00:15:13

Instead of managers saying,

you're making me look bad.

326

: 00:15:16

How does it that when you complain,

the manager says you're making me look

327

: 00:15:19

good because you're one of the people

that identified something that's hard.

328

: 00:15:24

And so I think culture is a huge

part of what has to, and that

329

: 00:15:27

takes time and that's set forth

by management, their actions.

330

: 00:15:31

Right.

331

: 00:15:32

And I think that's what has to happen.

332

: 00:15:34

Yeah.

333

: 00:15:34

That culture piece is huge and it is hard.

334

: 00:15:36

Cause even public company or not, just,

you know, a lot of times the CEO is

335

: 00:15:42

getting a fairly whitewashed version

of what's happening in an organization.

336

: 00:15:47

People, even if the culture

is somewhat open to it.

337

: 00:15:51

People are pretty resistant to give the,

the top person, uh, bad news sometimes.

338

: 00:15:56

And then, and then you maybe say,

okay, well, maybe the, maybe you

339

: 00:15:59

have a chief risk officer or whatever

that reports right into the board.

340

: 00:16:03

Maybe co reports into the board and

CEO so that there's an independent

341

: 00:16:06

board director who can actually have

these comfortable conversations, right?

342

: 00:16:12

Separate from the CEO, right?

343

: 00:16:13

There's all sorts of things that you can

try to do to try to quote unquote, protect

344

: 00:16:18

the The team that is bringing up issues.

345

: 00:16:22

Yeah, it has to be real, right?

346

: 00:16:25

Yeah.

347

: 00:16:25

So this is where you have more

and more companies setting up a

348

: 00:16:28

separate risk committee on their

board to deal with these issues and

349

: 00:16:33

to have them directly responsible.

350

: 00:16:34

Chief risk officer is duly reporting

or directly reporting into them.

351

: 00:16:38

There's a number of things that

you can do to try to make it

352

: 00:16:40

easier to have things come out.

353

: 00:16:44

All right, Gordon, can you take

us through the crisis that you and

354

: 00:16:49

princess cruises faced back in February

and March of: 2020

355

: 00:16:53

princess cruise ship was stuck in, I

believe Yokohama, Japan with thousands

356

: 00:16:57

of passengers and crew quarantined due

to a very early outbreak of COVID 19.

357

: 00:17:03

Right.

358

: 00:17:03

can you kind of take us through that?

359

: 00:17:05

Yeah.

360

: 00:17:05

And then obviously it's, there's a,

there's many elements to it, but let

361

: 00:17:08

me at least set up the framework for

the, the listeners, which is, you

362

: 00:17:12

know, on January 20th, our diamond

princess ship was leaving for a cruise

363

: 00:17:15

from Japan or Yokohama, a passenger

from Hong Kong boarded the ship

364

: 00:17:19

with everybody else on January 20th.

365

: 00:17:21

They then got off the ship

on January 25th in Hong Kong.

366

: 00:17:25

And didn't come back on the ship.

367

: 00:17:27

And then we found out on February

1st, that that passenger who

368

: 00:17:30

just embarked tested positive.

369

: 00:17:32

We then immediately notified

the Japanese ministry of health.

370

: 00:17:35

And we rushed back to Japan and we

proceeded to test a sample of passengers

371

: 00:17:40

and unfortunately, 10 tested positive

that then led to the decision by

372

: 00:17:44

the Japanese Ministry of Health.

373

: 00:17:45

We're going to have you in quarantine.

374

: 00:17:48

So the decision was made is that

our ship in the past, all the

375

: 00:17:50

passengers, guests and crew would

be put in quarantine for two weeks,

376

: 00:17:54

which was the understood duration,

if you will, of coronavirus or COVID.

377

: 00:17:58

And that was the crisis.

378

: 00:17:59

Suddenly we are trying to manage

the logistics, communications,

379

: 00:18:04

?

And ultimately partnering with all Japanese Ministry of Health and

380

: 00:18:07

other health organizations to get

through this quarantine, right?

381

: 00:18:10

Our cruise ship is made for vacations.

382

: 00:18:12

It's not necessarily

designed for quarantine.

383

: 00:18:14

And so think about the elements

that we had to suddenly figure out.

384

: 00:18:18

And you had to do it in

a very, very public way.

385

: 00:18:22

You were the center of the storm in

terms of media coverage for, Oh yeah,

386

: 00:18:26

you're, you're absolutely right.

387

: 00:18:27

We were the front page headline

news for, for a long time.

388

: 00:18:32

And part of it is because if you think

about all the people on the ship, we had

389

: 00:18:35

Americans, Canadians, Australians, right?

390

: 00:18:38

We had people from,

Many, many nationalities.

391

: 00:18:40

And for, unfortunately for those

countries, that was the first time

392

: 00:18:44

that someone from their country

was known to have coronavirus.

393

: 00:18:47

So in terms of Americans, we had

several hundred Americans, right?

394

: 00:18:50

And this, or when this started,

there was no known cases of

395

: 00:18:54

Corona virus or COVID in America.

396

: 00:18:56

Now it is since been proven

that there were cases we

397

: 00:18:59

just didn't know at the time.

398

: 00:19:00

So suddenly cruising became front and

center for Corona virus and princess

399

: 00:19:04

cruises and our diamond princess ship

was the pinnacle of the press coverage.

400

: 00:19:08

And of course, as you know, from a

communications PR standpoint, the media.

401

: 00:19:12

You know, and I, and I, as part

of my teaching, I tell the class,

402

: 00:19:15

look at for good or for bad, the

media is compensated by flicks.

403

: 00:19:19

They're trying to write

click bait headlines.

404

: 00:19:22

What click bait headline is

going to get more clicks, right?

405

: 00:19:25

Something like disaster and sickness

at sea, or Princess Cruises doing a

406

: 00:19:30

pretty good job of managing the crisis.

407

: 00:19:32

Which, which one's gonna get more clicks?

408

: 00:19:34

I don't oversee that headline.

409

: 00:19:36

Yeah, but you had, you had, you

had so many different, headlines.

410

: 00:19:39

And that's because that's

what got the clicks.

411

: 00:19:42

And so there's no way you could have

done it where everyone would have been.

412

: 00:19:47

Oh, great job.

413

: 00:19:47

Cause no one knew what

the hell was going on.

414

: 00:19:49

No, I think that was part of the thing.

415

: 00:19:50

One of the, so when you think about a,

we were probably more prepared than,

416

: 00:19:54

than most, Because number one in, in,

in the crisis management course, that

417

: 00:19:59

we have at USC that I teach the first

thing and Ninety percent of crisis

418

: 00:20:02

management is the preparation, right?

419

: 00:20:04

So the three-part framework is

prepare, manage and recover.

420

: 00:20:06

So, and a lot of people jump

to the manage, but you, your

421

: 00:20:09

ability to manage really is, is

tied to how well you prepare.

422

: 00:20:12

So, for example, we have designated

crisis teams pre-assigned People

423

: 00:20:16

know who is accountable for

what we do drills quarterly.

424

: 00:20:20

Okay.

425

: 00:20:21

So we, and we even drill for an outbreak.

426

: 00:20:23

I mean, now we didn't anticipate

coronavirus, but we've drilled

427

: 00:20:26

for things that like a norovirus,

which is a stomach type flu.

428

: 00:20:29

We do practice for that.

429

: 00:20:30

We practice for hurricanes.

430

: 00:20:31

We practice for anything,

a mechanical malfunction.

431

: 00:20:34

All right.

432

: 00:20:34

So that's something

433

: 00:20:35

.

And then we monitor, we knew about coronavirus because

434

: 00:20:38

we have offices in Japan.

435

: 00:20:40

We have offices in Shanghai, Taiwan.

436

: 00:20:43

And all of them were telling

us, Hey, this is a big deal.

437

: 00:20:46

So we were on high alert already.,

and when this hit, we stood

438

: 00:20:49

up the teams, right, we, we,

we stood up a team in Japan.

439

: 00:20:52

We stood up a team in our

headquarters in Santa Clarita.

440

: 00:20:55

We actually flew out our, one

of our senior executives who ran

441

: 00:20:58

international Tony Kaufman to

fly out to Japan, to oversee.

442

: 00:21:02

The crisis management efforts in market.

443

: 00:21:04

And of course we had a

crisis team on the ship.

444

: 00:21:07

The captain of course is

in charge of the ship.

445

: 00:21:09

And then of course we had

various leaders in Santa Clarita

446

: 00:21:13

managing various components.

447

: 00:21:14

And so I would say that this was

kind of a multifunction management

448

: 00:21:18

of which you could break it

down to maybe three key things.

449

: 00:21:20

One, well, the first thing

is just the priority.

450

: 00:21:22

The priority was pretty easy.

451

: 00:21:24

The safety and health

of everybody on board.

452

: 00:21:27

Every decision that was made was made

with that principle in mind, which

453

: 00:21:31

made it easier because if somebody

at a different, at various levels of

454

: 00:21:34

the company, if they had to make a

decision, they made a decision that this

455

: 00:21:37

is going to make things safer, right?

456

: 00:21:39

Or more comfortable for

our crew or passengers.

457

: 00:21:42

And that allows you to make decisions.

458

: 00:21:43

Sorry to interrupt you Gordon.

459

: 00:21:45

Can you give us a quick example of one of

those decisions that took place that where

460

: 00:21:48

you kind of had to weigh the trade off.

461

: 00:21:50

, of.

462

: 00:21:50

This versus that Right right off the

bat, you know, we knew hey these a lot

463

: 00:21:54

of these people have prescriptions.

464

: 00:21:56

Think about it How much medicine

do you bring on a vacation?

465

: 00:21:59

Enough for the vacation, right?

466

: 00:22:01

What happens if you have to

spend two more weeks unplanned

467

: 00:22:04

on your vacation in quarantine?

468

: 00:22:07

You're going to run out of medicine.

469

: 00:22:09

So immediately the teams that local

doctor says, Hey, we have an issue here.

470

: 00:22:13

We're going to have to start coordinating

with the Japanese ministry of health.

471

: 00:22:16

All of these medications, which are

in different languages, think about

472

: 00:22:19

the logistics of that guys, right?

473

: 00:22:21

You got all these prescriptions

and different languages in dosages

474

: 00:22:25

that may be metric or non metric.

475

: 00:22:27

And you have the Japanese, working

with the Japanese Ministry of Health to

476

: 00:22:30

figure those medicines out in Japanese,

figure out the right dosage, convert

477

: 00:22:34

it, get the medicines it was quite

the logistical complex effort, but the

478

: 00:22:39

teams rose to the occasion, but that's

example that you just have to do it,

479

: 00:22:42

another example is the fact that we

didn't know a lot about the disease.

480

: 00:22:46

So all of us stepped up to try to

figure out, okay, what do we know?

481

: 00:22:49

How can we learn more?

482

: 00:22:50

For example, in my case, I

actually, this is my wife.

483

: 00:22:53

My wife reminded me, Gordon,

don't, don't remember.

484

: 00:22:55

There's a gentleman who

is a friend of ours.

485

: 00:22:57

Didn't he work with the WHO?

486

: 00:22:59

So we called him up and sure

enough, he put me in touch with the

487

: 00:23:02

director of communications at the

WHO, the world health organization.

488

: 00:23:06

So I gave her a call and

I'm on the phone with her.

489

: 00:23:08

Next thing she knows, she puts me

on the phone with the director.

490

: 00:23:11

of immunology who's overseeing

the WHO's efforts on coronavirus.

491

: 00:23:16

So then I proceed to get our chief

medical officer on the phone, right?

492

: 00:23:20

Because this is above my pay grade, trying

to discuss, like, solutions for the virus.

493

: 00:23:24

But she is literally telling us in real

time what the WHO knows about the virus.

494

: 00:23:29

For example, that hand

gel kills the virus.

495

: 00:23:31

I don't know if you know this, but hand

gel or alcohol does not kill norovirus.

496

: 00:23:35

It's useless.

497

: 00:23:36

But it works against coronavirus.

498

: 00:23:38

So these are new things we're

learning real time, right?

499

: 00:23:41

From the director at the

WHO about things to do.

500

: 00:23:45

So you literally have to step

up and figure, who do we know?

501

: 00:23:48

Who can help us out?

502

: 00:23:49

And I'll give you another

example is your customers.

503

: 00:23:51

You might think, okay, in a crisis,

you're trying to manage the story, right?

504

: 00:23:55

A lot of people talk about, oh,

we got to control the narrative.

505

: 00:23:58

It's really hard to control a narrative

when every single person on that

506

: 00:24:02

ship has a smartphone documenting any

announcement, any piece of communication.

507

: 00:24:07

And you know what they're doing?

508

: 00:24:08

You know what's happening to them?

509

: 00:24:10

CNN, CNBC, Fox News, ABC, whenever

they see a tweet, Or Facebook posts

510

: 00:24:17

from any of our passengers they reach

out to them say hey, this is CNN

511

: 00:24:21

We'd like to talk to you in an hour.

512

: 00:24:22

Are you available?

513

: 00:24:23

And they're doing literally live

interviews from the ship The idea that

514

: 00:24:27

you can manage the narrative when you

have real time interviews with the

515

: 00:24:31

people on board, not going to happen.

516

: 00:24:32

So it's better instead

to solve the problem.

517

: 00:24:35

In today's modern crisis management,

it's not about, certainly you

518

: 00:24:39

don't ignore the narrative.

519

: 00:24:40

focus is solve the problem.

520

: 00:24:43

Like you said, You know, your number one

thing is to try to keep everybody safe.

521

: 00:24:47

That's there.

522

: 00:24:48

And if you, if you do things

that help in that direction,

523

: 00:24:50

then the narrative will be right.

524

: 00:24:52

,

Brian, you bring up to build on that, right?

525

: 00:24:54

Because does the media want to

hear what princess is doing?

526

: 00:24:58

That's good.

527

: 00:24:59

Yeah, I'll take it.

528

: 00:25:00

But for more often than not, they want to

know sensationalistic what's going wrong.

529

: 00:25:04

Right.

530

: 00:25:05

Cause that's just more clickbait.

531

: 00:25:06

Unfortunately, I hate to say it.

532

: 00:25:08

Mayhem is just more riveting

for viewers for whatever reason.

533

: 00:25:11

It's terrible, but it's true.

534

: 00:25:13

So if we can't get our perspective

out Because they're more focused on

535

: 00:25:18

certain sensationalistic elements.

536

: 00:25:21

By treating and solving the problem,

you let your guests tell the story.

537

: 00:25:25

So I'll give you an example.

538

: 00:25:26

During these interviews, a common question

would be, Hey John and Brian, you're never

539

: 00:25:31

going to go on a cruise again, are you?

540

: 00:25:33

9 said, we're already booked

on our next princess cruise.

541

: 00:25:38

Wow.

542

: 00:25:38

Really?

543

: 00:25:40

And then they'll say

while they're quarantined.

544

: 00:25:42

While they're in quarantine.

545

: 00:25:43

While they're quarantined.

546

: 00:25:44

That's amazing.

547

: 00:25:45

Right?

548

: 00:25:45

And part of it is because we gave

them all a free cruise pretty early.

549

: 00:25:48

We said, we're so sorry this is happening.

550

: 00:25:50

We're going to reimburse

you for what you paid.

551

: 00:25:52

And we're going to give you an equal

amount to try a future cruise with us.

552

: 00:25:56

They had nothing but time, so

they were all booking cruises

553

: 00:25:59

using the credit we gave them.

554

: 00:26:02

I'll give you another example.

555

: 00:26:03

One of the couples that were on

the ship was on a honeymoon and

556

: 00:26:06

they were very prolific on digital.

557

: 00:26:08

They, they had Reddit has

something called ask me anything.

558

: 00:26:11

AMA their AMA was the world's

most popular AMA of all time.

559

: 00:26:17

It's now number two because they

were doing real time AMA is here's

560

: 00:26:20

what it's like to be on this ship.

561

: 00:26:22

All right.

562

: 00:26:22

They were young.

563

: 00:26:23

They were a honeymoon couple.

564

: 00:26:24

So it was very interesting, right?

565

: 00:26:25

Oh my goodness.

566

: 00:26:26

We're so sorry.

567

: 00:26:27

And they happened to be

medical professionals as well.

568

: 00:26:29

One of them was, I reached out to

them, got ahold of them on Reddit

569

: 00:26:33

and said, I'm here to help you.

570

: 00:26:35

Let me know what things you need

or, and they happen to be very

571

: 00:26:38

connected to the people on the ship.

572

: 00:26:39

And they would tell me and the rest of

the princess team, Hey, cabin number,

573

: 00:26:43

you know, four 22 could use some of

this and they would provide feedback.

574

: 00:26:48

And so we had this real time

communication loop, which

575

: 00:26:50

enabled us to be more responsive.

576

: 00:26:52

And so when they then did an interview

with CNN or Fox news, whatever they would

577

: 00:26:57

say, and we're, you know, we're working

with, you know, princess executives.

578

: 00:27:01

Right to try to provide as much and so it

was partnership So a lot of times people

579

: 00:27:05

forget the people in the crisis can be

a partner with you most people want to

580

: 00:27:10

do well, they don't want their fellow

passengers suffering You know, beyond the

581

: 00:27:14

self interest, we're, we're, we care most,

you know, most people are very caring.

582

: 00:27:18

They want to, we're, most

people want to help others out.

583

: 00:27:20

Yeah.

584

: 00:27:20

So that's another example.

585

: 00:27:22

That's fascinating.

586

: 00:27:22

I mean, just the, you know, you go on

with the mindset that anything that you

587

: 00:27:26

communicate to somebody on the cruise

ship, that's going to get out in the media

588

: 00:27:30

yeah.

589

: 00:27:30

. So then the question is.

590

: 00:27:32

You want to make sure what you issue,

you know, okay, this is like going

591

: 00:27:35

to get out into the press So let's be

careful about it, but you have to do it

592

: 00:27:37

quickly So another recommendation for

anybody going through a crisis is you

593

: 00:27:41

need to stand up communication teams to

write content Whether it's press release

594

: 00:27:46

media release stuff for your website.

595

: 00:27:48

We were recording Videos every day

because we had a video from the chief

596

: 00:27:52

medical officer, video from the chief

experience officer talking about

597

: 00:27:55

how we're trying to make them more

comfortable videos from our CEO, right?

598

: 00:27:58

We, we, we got people who didn't

necessarily do this for princess.

599

: 00:28:02

We then onboarded them and say,

Hey, we know you're a good writer.

600

: 00:28:05

Could you help us write this stuff?

601

: 00:28:06

We needed people around the world.

602

: 00:28:08

Think about social media.

603

: 00:28:09

We had to monitor social media boards

around the world in local languages.

604

: 00:28:12

But ultimately that content was key.

605

: 00:28:14

And the other thing I would

say is you need to have an

606

: 00:28:17

approval process that is quick.

607

: 00:28:18

So we would say like, okay, this

is going out noon every day.

608

: 00:28:22

We will have a draft up by 1130.

609

: 00:28:25

Everybody get on this shared site

and provide shared comments so we can

610

: 00:28:28

see it all and it will be approved.

611

: 00:28:30

At noon, you have the set schedule, right?

612

: 00:28:33

And everybody knows, all the way up

to the CEO, you have access, take

613

: 00:28:36

a look, otherwise it's going out.

614

: 00:28:38

Yeah, I was going to ask you about that,

because, you know, even in the best of

615

: 00:28:41

times, getting everybody to agree on

what something should be, uh, can be

616

: 00:28:45

difficult, but the fact that you don't

even know all the information you need

617

: 00:28:49

to know, and you have to constantly

communicate things, knowing that it,

618

: 00:28:53

it probably did change, constantly,

but being able to enable and activate.

619

: 00:28:57

That type of ongoing communication

is it's so key because, you know,

620

: 00:29:02

we've all been in situations where

you just can't get the message out

621

: 00:29:05

I think that's key

getting the facts was key.

622

: 00:29:07

And this is where establishing clear

communication with the Japanese

623

: 00:29:10

ministry of health was coordinating

the testing to make sure what is

624

: 00:29:13

the accurate number of people that

have been tested positive, right?

625

: 00:29:16

How many people have they been

transported off the ship, all this stuff.

626

: 00:29:19

This is real time information that

we tried to convey to the guests.

627

: 00:29:22

And this is where you can

have version creep, right?

628

: 00:29:25

With the, it's very possible, right?

629

: 00:29:27

Who has the right data.

630

: 00:29:29

And so you have to validate the data.

631

: 00:29:30

And once you confirm it, we put

it up on the website under a new

632

: 00:29:34

area called notices and advisories.

633

: 00:29:36

So that was our Bible.

634

: 00:29:37

And so when social media, when our

team on social media posted something,

635

: 00:29:40

they would always refer back.

636

: 00:29:42

To the notice it is my

notices and advisories page.

637

: 00:29:45

So we would always know we were going

back to our single source of truth.

638

: 00:29:49

That's an important thing that every

crisis team should think about.

639

: 00:29:52

Where is our single source of truth?

640

: 00:29:53

Let's make sure everybody internally

and externally refers to it.

641

: 00:29:57

And that way you won't have version creep

because that's going to make you look

642

: 00:30:00

bad when someone interviews you and says,

wait a minute, you've reported 22 people

643

: 00:30:04

were impacted and this thing says 32.

644

: 00:30:07

What is it?

645

: 00:30:08

Seems like you don't know what's going on.

646

: 00:30:10

Just makes you look bad.

647

: 00:30:11

Those two things you just mentioned

that that kind of single source of truth

648

: 00:30:15

and the daily publishing schedule were

those things that you had, from all of

649

: 00:30:20

your preparation were those in place or

were some of those real time decisions

650

: 00:30:23

you had to kind of put into place?

651

: 00:30:25

Yeah.

652

: 00:30:25

Yeah.

653

: 00:30:25

Yeah, certainly the idea of, common

goal so we can make decisions, but I do

654

: 00:30:30

think this rapid communication to the

passengers, I think maybe that was, we've

655

: 00:30:34

had done versions of it, but not to the

refinement that we had to and standing

656

: 00:30:38

up all these content teams and all this

stuff, because there was an, the amount

657

: 00:30:41

of communication we had to try to get

out because we had so many stakeholders.

658

: 00:30:45

Think about every embassy

reaching out to us because they

659

: 00:30:48

had citizens aboard the ship.

660

: 00:30:50

Think about that.

661

: 00:30:50

Then the other thing would be

regarding the notices and advisories.

662

: 00:30:53

Yes, that was a new section of

our website that we stood up.

663

: 00:30:57

I mean, we've had versions of this, but

to have to do this like couple times

664

: 00:31:00

every day with new information, you

know, I think that became a lifesaver

665

: 00:31:04

that we set up this whole thing so

that we wouldn't have version creep.

666

: 00:31:07

So we've had versions of it, but maybe

not to the extent that we had to create

667

: 00:31:11

for this And were you, were you grounding

other ships at that time or were they

668

: 00:31:15

still No, that's a good question.

669

: 00:31:17

So at the time we took

additional precautions.

670

: 00:31:20

So one of the things that we did is as

we were getting real time learning, we

671

: 00:31:23

were passing it on to the fleet, not

just the fleet, but the whole industry.

672

: 00:31:26

We actually wrote up certain best

practices, shared it with the industry

673

: 00:31:30

organization because we don't want to

compete on health and emergencies, right?

674

: 00:31:34

That's not good for the industry.

675

: 00:31:35

Right.

676

: 00:31:35

Right.

677

: 00:31:36

So for example, the prescriptions,

you know, we said, Hey guys, here's

678

: 00:31:39

a tip that you should tell all your

passengers bring extra medication.

679

: 00:31:42

. We shared that freely through the industry

channels to all the other cruise lines.

680

: 00:31:47

We did ground our fleet, a month later.

681

: 00:31:50

We were the first cruise line

to decide, you know what?

682

: 00:31:52

We're going to ground our whole fleet.

683

: 00:31:54

Then I think it was a day later, the

CDC shut down the rest of the industry.

684

: 00:31:58

Well, I'm sure you had a, even before

they became grounded or docked or

685

: 00:32:02

whatever the C term of that is.

686

: 00:32:04

I I'm sure you were getting flooded

with customer service questions

687

: 00:32:07

about whether the thing was even

going to happen or not, right?

688

: 00:32:09

Like you guys were, there was lift.

689

: 00:32:11

Yeah, there is.

690

: 00:32:12

There's definitely

questions about like, okay.

691

: 00:32:15

Cause like for diamond princess, we

had people who were booked on the

692

: 00:32:17

next cruise and the next cruise, and

we have to tell them, Hey guys, we're

693

: 00:32:20

not sailing, we're in a quarantine.

694

: 00:32:22

.

Certainly that had to be managed.

695

: 00:32:23

And I would, you know, another element

of the crisis that I'll share with you.

696

: 00:32:26

Well, well, even fresh air breaks, right?

697

: 00:32:28

You had people who are on a

cruise ship who maybe didn't

698

: 00:32:30

have balconies or windows.

699

: 00:32:32

So we had to coordinate, how

do we get them out logistically

700

: 00:32:34

to get out to fresh air?

701

: 00:32:36

I mean, even that is an impromptu

thing that we had to manage.

702

: 00:32:38

Like how can they do it?

703

: 00:32:39

How far away should they be

walking between each other?

704

: 00:32:42

Right.

705

: 00:32:42

Getting guidance from the Japanese

ministry of health, WHO and all those

706

: 00:32:46

partners, so I think we managed it so

well, but then the, you may have heard the

707

: 00:32:49

state department decided we are going to

send a military aircraft to pick up all

708

: 00:32:54

the Americans off the ship, because we

just think as a matter of precaution, it's

709

: 00:33:00

better if they serve a new quarantine.

710

: 00:33:02

In military bases on land in the U.

711

: 00:33:05

S.

712

: 00:33:05

So suddenly these passengers

were I think it was day 12.

713

: 00:33:08

They thought they're almost done

They're told the americans are

714

: 00:33:11

going to the military going to

pick them up Bring them to the u.

715

: 00:33:13

s to military bases in california

and texas nebraska And they're

716

: 00:33:17

going to need to serve an additional

two weeks of quarantine now.

717

: 00:33:19

They don't have to go It was

recommended that they go.

718

: 00:33:22

Yeah, most went several of those stayed

on the ship They said no, I don't want

719

: 00:33:26

to go But most went on the plane and

then they flew to these military bases.

720

: 00:33:31

So here's a question, John and Brian,

what is princesses cruises obligation to

721

: 00:33:36

those passengers who have now been taken

off the ship and flown to military bases?

722

: 00:33:41

You'd think it'd be over.

723

: 00:33:42

You'd think it'd be over, right?

724

: 00:33:44

When you fly on a flight, let's say

you fly to New York city, John, let's

725

: 00:33:46

say I'm going to visit you in Philly.

726

: 00:33:48

I take, let's say American

airlines, get off the plane.

727

: 00:33:51

I'm in the airport in Philly.

728

: 00:33:52

Is American Airlines

still accountable for me?

729

: 00:33:54

No way!

730

: 00:33:55

If I trip and fall in the airport, it's

not American Airlines fault, right?

731

: 00:34:00

So one could argue as soon as they left

our ship, we've, we're done with those.

732

: 00:34:04

Those are less people to

be worried about, right?

733

: 00:34:07

But when you think about it,

they haven't gotten home yet.

734

: 00:34:11

They're going to military bases and in the

memo written by the U S state department,

735

: 00:34:16

they said, we will get you to the military

bases, but it's up to you to get home.

736

: 00:34:21

Really?

737

: 00:34:22

Oh yeah.

738

: 00:34:23

That was in the memo.

739

: 00:34:24

I have to admit, I was one that noticed

that and I said to the team, I think

740

: 00:34:27

we need to stand up care teams to

work with the military to help take

741

: 00:34:31

care of our guests and get them home.

742

: 00:34:33

Wow.

743

: 00:34:33

Gordon, I'm sorry.

744

: 00:34:35

So one day you wake up and your job

is all about creating a fantastic,

745

: 00:34:40

luxurious cruise experience.

746

: 00:34:41

And the next day it's about how

to keep people alive, work with

747

: 00:34:45

state departments, militaries.

748

: 00:34:46

And, uh, World Health Organizations.

749

: 00:34:50

How did you keep it together, man?

750

: 00:34:52

Well, I think the whole

team did a remarkable job.

751

: 00:34:54

One is, you know, we had great leaders.

752

: 00:34:56

Jan Schwartz, who was running Princess

Cruises and really setting a good tone.

753

: 00:35:01

In fact, there's a Harvard

Business Case Study that talks

754

: 00:35:03

about how do you keep your cool.

755

: 00:35:06

Right?

756

: 00:35:06

Because the way you handle the

crisis, people can gather, right?

757

: 00:35:09

If you're distressed, that

echoes throughout the room.

758

: 00:35:11

If you're calm and collected and able to

make smart decisions, that also resonates.

759

: 00:35:15

So I think that's a whole nother

case that I recommend you read.

760

: 00:35:18

you know, we just, because we

had this common goal and we had,

761

: 00:35:22

everybody was supporting each other.

762

: 00:35:23

I will tell you a few people

found it too difficult.

763

: 00:35:25

They said, I need a break.

764

: 00:35:27

And we were, we understood it.

765

: 00:35:28

We're glad that they were transparent.

766

: 00:35:29

Because it was hard and, but we

did have just even fatigue, right?

767

: 00:35:33

We set up a nap, nap room nearby.

768

: 00:35:35

We brought in food every day.

769

: 00:35:36

So people were fed and we did

have different things because

770

: 00:35:39

when it was daytime in Japan, it

gave some relief for headquarters.

771

: 00:35:43

So the Japan team could manage

locally what was going on.

772

: 00:35:46

We would come in.

773

: 00:35:47

And so when the captain needed

to do a press release during

774

: 00:35:50

our time, we would write it.

775

: 00:35:51

The captain would always make an

announcement to the ship at the same time

776

: 00:35:55

Even if there was nothing to be said.

777

: 00:35:56

Yeah our job in santa clarita California

was to make sure we said here's your

778

: 00:36:01

announcement for the day or twice a day.

779

: 00:36:03

It was important to have this pattern

this sequence of regular events.

780

: 00:36:06

I think that helped us give us purpose.

781

: 00:36:09

And then we also stood up different

leaders managing different

782

: 00:36:12

components of the crisis.

783

: 00:36:14

When we decided we were going to

help the military take care of our

784

: 00:36:18

guests, I was the head of that team.

785

: 00:36:20

So I enlisted my sales team in Texas

and California to go to the military

786

: 00:36:25

bases and lend support there physically.

787

: 00:36:28

And we were on the phone.

788

: 00:36:29

We had daily calls with

the military bases.

789

: 00:36:32

I'll tell you something funny.

790

: 00:36:33

The passengers didn't know

where they were going.

791

: 00:36:35

They weren't told.

792

: 00:36:36

So we didn't know, nor did they, we

actually looked up on the internet,

793

: 00:36:39

the phone numbers of the military

bases, called them up and said,

794

: 00:36:42

Hey, you may have heard some of our

passengers are going to your base.

795

: 00:36:46

We want to help you.

796

: 00:36:47

Can we talk to your commanding officer?

797

: 00:36:49

Literally.

798

: 00:36:49

That's how we did it.

799

: 00:36:50

Wow.

800

: 00:36:51

And then they, and at first they

were skeptical, but then they said,

801

: 00:36:54

you know what, we're going to keep

your passengers safe and healthy, but

802

: 00:36:57

we're not very good at hospitality.

803

: 00:36:59

We could use your help.

804

: 00:37:00

And they agreed, and it

was a great partnership.

805

: 00:37:02

It really was a great partnership.

806

: 00:37:04

your own employees and staff on the

ship itself, , did any of them get sick?

807

: 00:37:11

Oh, yes.

808

: 00:37:12

I'm sure they're not prepared

to be able to manage.

809

: 00:37:14

People under quarantine, like,

you know, for that long, I mean,

810

: 00:37:18

I don't think anyone was prepared

the Japanese ministry of health.

811

: 00:37:21

I mean, no, one's had to do a quarantine

of this scale for decades of any.

812

: 00:37:26

And, so I'll, I'll say that

everyone, the crew was so courageous.

813

: 00:37:29

The captain called the crew, his

gladiators, because he said, look at

814

: 00:37:33

we're fighting a war and we're going

to win, and he actually said, you know,

815

: 00:37:37

diamond princess, what is a diamond?

816

: 00:37:38

And the diamond is, under pressure,

817

: 00:37:40

so he says, we're going to be a diamond.

818

: 00:37:42

We're under pressure, but we are

going to emerge as a diamond.

819

: 00:37:45

Ultimately the crew was fantastic.

820

: 00:37:48

You know, some of the crew, like I

mentioned, may have gotten stressed,

821

: 00:37:50

et cetera, it was hard for them

because they were doing all the work.

822

: 00:37:53

Think about room service, right?

823

: 00:37:55

Suddenly you have to deliver meals to

almost: 3000

824

: 00:38:01

Think about the logistics of that.

825

: 00:38:02

Cause that's not how

meals usually are done.

826

: 00:38:04

People are eating meals in the

dining hall, on the pool deck

827

: 00:38:06

or all these different places.

828

: 00:38:08

But no, three, almost 3000 meals.

829

: 00:38:10

And then you have dietary restrictions

that you got to manage for.

830

: 00:38:13

Right.

831

: 00:38:14

So you had so many things that they

were doing, but they were amazing.

832

: 00:38:17

And ultimately the passengers

started to put notes outside

833

: 00:38:21

of their door, expressing their

appreciation for the, the, the crew.

834

: 00:38:24

And we actually took that as a sign

that says, Hey, we're going to To spread

835

: 00:38:28

the happiness, we created a hashtag,

hang in there, diamond princess.

836

: 00:38:31

And there was then a global movement

of support where people were

837

: 00:38:35

creating content, music, songs,

et cetera, for people to see.

838

: 00:38:39

So the crew understood how the world was

really appreciative of the hardships and

839

: 00:38:44

the courage that they were exhibiting.

840

: 00:38:45

Really is amazing.

841

: 00:38:46

And so much to learn from this.

842

: 00:38:48

I'll tell you the thing that's really

hitting me is in the face of constantly

843

: 00:38:51

changing information and misinformation

and chaos that you are, you were able to

844

: 00:38:56

create some predictability and routine.

845

: 00:38:59

Seems like it did an awful lot

to get through that crisis.

846

: 00:39:02

So cheers to you and cheers to your wife

for being smart enough to, Remind you

847

: 00:39:06

of your personal connection to someone

at the World Health Organization.

848

: 00:39:10

You want to hear from everybody.

849

: 00:39:12

What ideas do we have?

850

: 00:39:13

And I think that a leader in a crisis

needs to assimilate all the information.

851

: 00:39:17

And, but they have to make

that courageous decision.

852

: 00:39:19

That courageous decision may not be,

for example, what your legal team

853

: 00:39:22

advises you, I mean, I mean, this

is where I'm not telling you to break

854

: 00:39:27

the law, but obviously the business

affairs team may say, Hey, to reduce our

855

: 00:39:31

liability, maybe we shouldn't do this,

but sometimes you may say, wait, wait,

856

: 00:39:34

this is going to help solve the problem.

857

: 00:39:36

We need to do this, so those are tough.

858

: 00:39:38

Those are tough decisions that.

859

: 00:39:40

And a leader needs to

have the courage to make.

860

: 00:39:42

, Gordon, I remember years ago, and I think

the last time I saw you pre COVID, , it

861

: 00:39:46

sounded like you had the greatest job in

the world, you know, traveling all over

862

: 00:39:49

to build food programs with celebrity

chefs and cocktail nixologists.,

863

: 00:39:54

Maybe tell us about one of those

highlights, because I'd love to hear

864

: 00:39:58

about the shiny side of the experience.

865

: 00:40:00

You know, I think there's, I think

a lot of people, because most people

866

: 00:40:04

have never cruised before, and so this

is where a lot of cruising is really

867

: 00:40:07

about growing the category, because a

lot of people misunderstand cruising.

868

: 00:40:10

And it's just, it's a wonderful

category from a standpoint of building

869

: 00:40:14

amazing experiences for vacations.

870

: 00:40:16

And marketing them.

871

: 00:40:17

Right.

872

: 00:40:17

So I'll, you know, I'll tell you an

example of something that I think

873

: 00:40:20

taken from my entertainment media

days from Disney, you know, I, you

874

: 00:40:23

know, when you're doing marketing,

movies, whatever, you're always trying

875

: 00:40:26

to find that, that positioning line.

876

: 00:40:28

Right.

877

: 00:40:28

And maybe like from the creators of Lion

King comes our next big motion picture.

878

: 00:40:32

Right.

879

: 00:40:33

Right.

880

: 00:40:33

There's always IP.

881

: 00:40:38

And so when we were trying

to figure out, , how do we

882

: 00:40:40

reinvent maybe our entertainment?

883

: 00:40:42

We have broadway style shows.

884

: 00:40:43

We actually have kind of a big theater,

better than many broadway theaters.

885

: 00:40:46

And, we were thinking about what

do we do because there's other

886

: 00:40:49

ships that have broadway shows.

887

: 00:40:51

You actually have mama mia

on Royal Caribbean, right?

888

: 00:40:54

You have these broadway shows,

but it's expensive, right?

889

: 00:40:56

You got to license them.

890

: 00:40:58

So instead we said, look, why

don't we do borrowed equity?

891

: 00:41:00

Could we get somebody to work with us?

892

: 00:41:03

And so we were fortunate to have

gotten Stephen Schwartz, the creator of

893

: 00:41:07

Pippin, Godspell, and of course, Wicked.

894

: 00:41:09

We could say, you know, from the

creator of Wicked comes his next

895

: 00:41:12

great Broadway musical premiering

exclusively on Princess Cruises.

896

: 00:41:17

So when you think about movies

going direct to Netflix or at

897

: 00:41:21

Disney, I was lucky enough to

help invent, direct to video.

898

: 00:41:24

We now had Broadway shows from

the creator of Wicked going

899

: 00:41:27

direct to Princess Cruises.

900

: 00:41:28

Neat.

901

: 00:41:29

Great.

902

: 00:41:29

That's an example.

903

: 00:41:30

And that gives you a marketing hook

for people who are interested in that.

904

: 00:41:33

And we did also a partnership with

discovery channel where we brought

905

: 00:41:36

experiences, like we had the deadliest

catch tour in Alaska exclusively on

906

: 00:41:41

princess cruises, because we had a

partnership with discovery and their

907

: 00:41:43

sister division, animal planet.

908

: 00:41:45

So that allowed us to create

these amazing branded experiences.

909

: 00:41:50

Very cool.

910

: 00:41:51

I'm trying to imagine Brian's

reaction when I told him he just

911

: 00:41:53

got the job where he has to go, find

the entertainment and the desserts

912

: 00:41:57

and the cocktails for a cruise.

913

: 00:41:59

I think all over the world.

914

: 00:42:00

I think his head.

915

: 00:42:01

I mean, cocktails are big.

916

: 00:42:04

our cocktail mixologist, He,

created these amazing cocktails.

917

: 00:42:09

And a lot of them were destination theme.

918

: 00:42:10

Cause we always were like

to try to embrace the local

919

: 00:42:13

destinations that we went to.

920

: 00:42:15

So, our wine program, our cocktail

program, our, chocolate program,

921

: 00:42:21

our, our bed, we created a new bed.

922

: 00:42:23

We hired one of the best sleep experts

to create our Prince's luxury bed because

923

: 00:42:27

people go on vacation to relax and sleep.

924

: 00:42:29

So we wanted to make sure they

had the best sleep on vacation.

925

: 00:42:32

It got so popular we had to sell our beds

because people said, can I buy this thing?

926

: 00:42:37

That's crazy.

927

: 00:42:38

Who knew you had to think

of a chocolate program.

928

: 00:42:39

That's the news to me learning

so much today Yeah chocolate.

929

: 00:42:43

I mean think about chocolate, right?

930

: 00:42:44

If you look at our one of our core

targets of women who often help drive

931

: 00:42:48

the vacation That's one of the few

indulgences they give themselves is

932

: 00:42:52

chocolate We actually did surveys, right?

933

: 00:42:54

We actually asked, so I apologies

for your listeners, but we asked

934

: 00:42:57

women and men the same question.

935

: 00:42:59

Would you give up chocolate

or would you give up sex?

936

: 00:43:03

And you can imagine the answer.

937

: 00:43:05

Women were different than the

answer than what men gave.

938

: 00:43:08

That's because they have to

sleep with men sometimes.

939

: 00:43:13

So, , can you talk a little bit about

how, , technology, , transformed

940

: 00:43:17

that, that guest experience over

the years while you were there?

941

: 00:43:20

Cause I can only imagine

the types of strides that.

942

: 00:43:23

you were able to make and incorporate

into the, the cruise experience that

943

: 00:43:27

hadn't traditionally been there.

944

: 00:43:28

I think the biggest thing is what,

John, you mentioned earlier, the

945

: 00:43:31

Ocean Medallion smart wearable.

946

: 00:43:33

that was really advanced

and continues to be right.

947

: 00:43:35

You would wear it.

948

: 00:43:36

It would sync to the, an app on

your phone, as well as all these

949

: 00:43:40

various, sensors on the ship.

950

: 00:43:41

So we would know.

951

: 00:43:42

All sorts of things to personalize

our vacation experience for you.

952

: 00:43:45

So you could check in on the ship quicker.

953

: 00:43:48

You could open your, your

room with your medallion.

954

: 00:43:50

You could order things and

things would be delivered to you.

955

: 00:43:53

So you don't have to be at

the bar to order a drink.

956

: 00:43:56

I mean, I would say it's a bar wherever

you are, or since I'm from Wisconsin.

957

: 00:44:00

You know, and I come from

Milwaukee, a beer is always near.

958

: 00:44:03

How's that?

959

: 00:44:03

And, and, and I think that's one of,

these are the things where technology

960

: 00:44:08

and smart technology can improve

the experience because it was saving

961

: 00:44:12

you time and time is what you want.

962

: 00:44:14

That's the most precious

commodity on vacation, right?

963

: 00:44:16

Whether it's, I don't want to spend

10 minutes going to the bar waiting

964

: 00:44:19

and coming back to my, my lounge.

965

: 00:44:21

Not don't have to, we'll deliver

a drink to you wherever you are.

966

: 00:44:24

That's amazing.

967

: 00:44:24

Was it something that you were able

to implement pretty quickly once

968

: 00:44:27

it was ready, like how do you make

sure that like that is cruise ready?

969

: 00:44:31

Because I can imagine that, minimum

viable products, versus the full

970

: 00:44:35

reality is a difficult long run.

971

: 00:44:38

Yeah, Brian, you're right.

972

: 00:44:39

It took time.

973

: 00:44:39

I mean, it was, I would

say it was a soft rollout.

974

: 00:44:42

And it just gradually, because there

was clearly just like with any initial

975

: 00:44:45

rollout, there's going to be some,

things that aren't working perfectly.

976

: 00:44:48

So you have to constantly

try to refine it.

977

: 00:44:50

So it took time to get it to a place

where you felt, you know, every,

978

: 00:44:54

every month, it made a difference in

terms of how well it was operating,

979

: 00:44:58

meeting expectations and so forth.

980

: 00:45:00

so, yeah, it was quite the learning

curve because it is very advanced

981

: 00:45:03

in terms of that smart wearable.

982

: 00:45:05

So good point.

983

: 00:45:06

Brian and I always talk about marketing.

984

: 00:45:08

We love marketing and this podcast is

about how brands position themselves.

985

: 00:45:12

It seems like when you ask someone

about cruising, there's kind of

986

: 00:45:15

like two kinds of people out there.

987

: 00:45:17

Those who say they love cruises and

those who say they will never go on one.

988

: 00:45:20

Did you market?

989

: 00:45:21

Cruises to people who

were those kind of nevers.

990

: 00:45:24

And if so, how did you do it?

991

: 00:45:26

Yeah, John, good question.

992

: 00:45:27

So part of it is, you know, the

people who said, Oh, I get seasick.

993

: 00:45:31

And we try to educate them.

994

: 00:45:32

Look at what, what you experience a

seasickness rarely happens on the ship

995

: 00:45:35

because it's so big and all these things.

996

: 00:45:37

But the common thing is

just misunderstanding.

997

: 00:45:39

Like they said, yeah, a lot

of people were, I would do it.

998

: 00:45:42

I just haven't needed to because

they are just doing land vacations.

999

: 00:45:45

Right.

: 1000

00:45:45,985 --> 00:45:49,705

So one of the things that we came up

with was this idea is there's cruise

: 1001

00:45:49,705 --> 00:45:52,534

vacations that you can only do on ocean.

: 1002

00:45:52,544 --> 00:45:53,924

You can't do it on land.

: 1003

00:45:54,074 --> 00:45:55,784

Give me an example, Panama canal.

: 1004

00:45:55,784 --> 00:45:59,904

If you want to go through the Panama

canal, you got to do it through a cruise.

: 1005

00:45:59,904 --> 00:46:01,964

And it's one of the

greatest man made wonders.

: 1006

00:46:01,964 --> 00:46:03,334

It's amazing to go through the locks.

: 1007

00:46:03,429 --> 00:46:07,149

Alaska, really the best way to

see Alaska is through a cruise.

: 1008

00:46:07,334 --> 00:46:07,654

Yeah.

: 1009

00:46:07,820 --> 00:46:08,130

Right.

: 1010

00:46:08,195 --> 00:46:12,155

And so we created with Condé Nast

Traveler what we called the seven

: 1011

00:46:12,155 --> 00:46:13,035

cruise wonders of the world.

: 1012

00:46:13,162 --> 00:46:13,402

Right.

: 1013

00:46:13,402 --> 00:46:19,382

The idea that these are vacations that

pretty much exclusively are better or only

: 1014

00:46:19,382 --> 00:46:21,302

available through an ocean based cruise.

: 1015

00:46:21,302 --> 00:46:24,752

So people would read this article on

Condé Nast and say, oh my goodness.

: 1016

00:46:24,842 --> 00:46:26,922

We really should do the

Panama Canal cruise.

: 1017

00:46:26,922 --> 00:46:30,272

You've always like, you know,

you're big into engineering things.

: 1018

00:46:30,282 --> 00:46:31,182

Let's go check it out.

: 1019

00:46:31,192 --> 00:46:33,112

Or I'd love to see wildlife.

: 1020

00:46:33,132 --> 00:46:34,862

Let's go on an Alaska cruise.

: 1021

00:46:34,902 --> 00:46:35,192

Right?

: 1022

00:46:35,252 --> 00:46:39,062

You know, those are the type of things

that we would help promote through that.

: 1023

00:46:39,102 --> 00:46:41,322

So that's an example of us trying to grow.

: 1024

00:46:41,347 --> 00:46:42,474

The cruise never's.

: 1025

00:46:42,474 --> 00:46:47,034

The other thing we would do is we promoted

celebrations because John and Brian,

: 1026

00:46:47,044 --> 00:46:50,334

you may be say, Oh, I'm indifferent, but

I haven't had a need, but let's say I

: 1027

00:46:50,344 --> 00:46:52,794

said, you know, Hey guys, I'm retiring.

: 1028

00:46:52,794 --> 00:46:54,824

I would like you to join me on a cruise.

: 1029

00:46:54,844 --> 00:46:56,014

We've got a great rate.

: 1030

00:46:56,061 --> 00:46:57,881

It's just a three day short cruise.

: 1031

00:46:57,901 --> 00:47:01,321

Please come join me on this

great retirement, shindig.

: 1032

00:47:01,384 --> 00:47:02,164

You might go.

: 1033

00:47:02,214 --> 00:47:03,094

Yeah, we're in.

: 1034

00:47:03,167 --> 00:47:03,567

We're in.

: 1035

00:47:04,157 --> 00:47:09,194

This is where celebrations are a great

way to get newbies to come aboard, right?

: 1036

00:47:09,194 --> 00:47:12,374

Someone's having a honeymoon

or an anniversary, a retirement

: 1037

00:47:12,374 --> 00:47:13,461

party, whatever it is.

: 1038

00:47:13,567 --> 00:47:21,077

Brian, I am hereby inviting you and Gordon

to take a celebratory cruise when Snap

: 1039

00:47:21,077 --> 00:47:23,207

Decisions makes this one millionth dollar.

: 1040

00:47:25,862 --> 00:47:27,632

We'll do a live broadcast from the ship.

: 1041

00:47:27,872 --> 00:47:28,472

There we go..

: 1042

00:47:28,656 --> 00:47:31,236

I'd love to hear a little bit

about your time at Disney and,

: 1043

00:47:31,236 --> 00:47:32,496

what that experience was like.

: 1044

00:47:32,496 --> 00:47:35,596

It seemed like the larger part of

your earlier career was from there.

: 1045

00:47:36,006 --> 00:47:37,296

Disney was 18 years.

: 1046

00:47:37,296 --> 00:47:38,366

It was wonderful.

: 1047

00:47:38,451 --> 00:47:41,751

You know, I will tell many people who

asked me about like what they recommend

: 1048

00:47:41,751 --> 00:47:44,721

in terms of careers and jobs, you know,

obviously find something you're passionate

: 1049

00:47:44,721 --> 00:47:48,241

about, find something ideally you're

good at, but if you can find a market

: 1050

00:47:48,241 --> 00:47:51,241

that's growing, right, there's just more

opportunities when it's growing and the

: 1051

00:47:51,241 --> 00:47:55,581

home entertainment market was exploding

with people buying videos, buying DVDs.

: 1052

00:47:55,581 --> 00:47:58,491

But then of course, there was a road

bump when people eventually transitioned

: 1053

00:47:58,501 --> 00:48:00,221

from ownership to access, right?

: 1054

00:48:00,221 --> 00:48:03,381

But for the years I was there,

it was mostly rapid growth.

: 1055

00:48:03,401 --> 00:48:04,391

It was, it was great.

: 1056

00:48:04,391 --> 00:48:04,701

When.

: 1057

00:48:04,772 --> 00:48:08,642

you were working from people like with

ABC and we, we made lost one of the best

: 1058

00:48:08,642 --> 00:48:11,232

selling TV box sets of all time, right?

: 1059

00:48:11,232 --> 00:48:15,969

That was amazing to, animation working

with the Pixar people and Steve jobs

: 1060

00:48:15,969 --> 00:48:20,389

on finding Nemo and toy story to, the

people at the Disney channel, high

: 1061

00:48:20,389 --> 00:48:25,559

school musical was a huge seller on DVD

to of course, pirates of the Caribbean

: 1062

00:48:25,559 --> 00:48:27,169

and Disney live action movies, right?

: 1063

00:48:27,169 --> 00:48:28,629

It was amazing how.

: 1064

00:48:28,746 --> 00:48:32,046

There was all this consumption and

people wanted to have their library.

: 1065

00:48:32,046 --> 00:48:34,786

And of course, from a marketing

standpoint, there was this idea that

: 1066

00:48:34,796 --> 00:48:38,682

hurry, get the Lion King before it

goes back into the Disney vault.

: 1067

00:48:38,709 --> 00:48:43,459

Yes, and this is and I will give credit

to roy disney He came up with the idea

: 1068

00:48:43,479 --> 00:48:47,626

or theatrical back I think in: 1945

because they needed money So they said

: 1069

00:48:47,626 --> 00:48:52,366

let's bring back snow white into theaters

So we we copied that but what we did is

: 1070

00:48:52,366 --> 00:48:54,436

we added this concept of a disney vault.

: 1071

00:48:54,446 --> 00:48:57,254

We actually Created a

vault that slammed shut.

: 1072

00:48:57,254 --> 00:49:02,084

So in our commercial, Ariel would swim

into the vault and we would slam shut.

: 1073

00:49:02,184 --> 00:49:06,044

And you don't want to be that bad

parent that prevents your kids from

: 1074

00:49:06,044 --> 00:49:08,884

experiencing Sebastian founder and Ariel.

: 1075

00:49:08,974 --> 00:49:09,304

Right.

: 1076

00:49:09,457 --> 00:49:10,257

So that was great.

: 1077

00:49:10,257 --> 00:49:13,657

And of course that doesn't work as well

now with everything being accessible,

: 1078

00:49:13,657 --> 00:49:17,587

but back then, oh my goodness, our

disappearing classics campaign was huge.

: 1079

00:49:17,751 --> 00:49:18,640

Yeah, gee, thanks.

: 1080

00:49:18,641 --> 00:49:19,341

Thanks, Gordon.

: 1081

00:49:19,381 --> 00:49:19,691

Thanks.

: 1082

00:49:19,691 --> 00:49:20,231

Yeah, sorry.

: 1083

00:49:20,641 --> 00:49:21,261

Sorry, John.

: 1084

00:49:21,601 --> 00:49:25,271

But those, those were examples of things

that were so much fun creating those

: 1085

00:49:25,271 --> 00:49:29,357

type of things, did a lot of testing

with packaging, because we would test

: 1086

00:49:29,357 --> 00:49:32,837

our packages and see which ones would pop

off the shelf that people want to buy.

: 1087

00:49:32,929 --> 00:49:36,319

And then even, and I mentioned to you,

inventing direct to video was, was quite

: 1088

00:49:36,319 --> 00:49:39,619

the thing that we're very proud of, which

made a lot of money for the company.

: 1089

00:49:39,696 --> 00:49:42,736

And the last thing I would say is

recognizing that we needed data

: 1090

00:49:42,746 --> 00:49:47,116

because most of the data for movies

were with the, with the theater chains

: 1091

00:49:47,116 --> 00:49:49,016

like AMC or they're with Walmart.

: 1092

00:49:49,037 --> 00:49:52,527

So we decided to create our own loyalty

program, Disney Movie Rewards, and that

: 1093

00:49:52,527 --> 00:49:56,091

allowed us to have a huge database of

millions of people, which have then was

: 1094

00:49:56,091 --> 00:49:57,851

used as a foundation for Disney Plus.

: 1095

00:49:57,861 --> 00:50:01,331

So I'm very proud that we come, we came

up with that loyalty program because

: 1096

00:50:01,331 --> 00:50:05,011

data is the new digital gold, if you

say so a little bit of some of the

: 1097

00:50:05,011 --> 00:50:07,841

things that we worked on that, that

very proud of the teams and what we

: 1098

00:50:07,851 --> 00:50:11,531

were able to do during a category that

was growing rapidly until it didn't.

: 1099

00:50:11,802 --> 00:50:12,212

Yeah.

: 1100

00:50:12,366 --> 00:50:12,566

Yeah.

: 1101

00:50:12,606 --> 00:50:16,756

Well, I think that's a good lesson

for, for any marketer is just, not

: 1102

00:50:16,756 --> 00:50:20,196

being afraid to evolve and change

before it changes you, you know.

: 1103

00:50:20,346 --> 00:50:20,406

Yeah.

: 1104

00:50:21,219 --> 00:50:21,429

Yep.

: 1105

00:50:21,672 --> 00:50:24,252

Guys, it was a pleasure

talking to you, John.

: 1106

00:50:24,252 --> 00:50:25,122

Fine, thank you so much.

: 1107

00:50:25,122 --> 00:50:26,982

You, your, your students are so lucky.

: 1108

00:50:27,072 --> 00:50:28,362

It's no, you're so high.

: 1109

00:50:28,362 --> 00:50:30,042

You are truly a masterclass.

: 1110

00:50:30,042 --> 00:50:32,322

I feel like we can do this

all day, and learn from you.

: 1111

00:50:32,532 --> 00:50:34,879

So, your, you're so well,

we'll do a part two.

: 1112

00:50:34,939 --> 00:50:35,479

That's fine.

: 1113

00:50:35,484 --> 00:50:36,799

We'll, we'll look forward to it.

: 1114

00:50:36,799 --> 00:50:39,769

But guys, congratulations on

your podcast, and it was a lot

: 1115

00:50:39,769 --> 00:50:40,999

of fun talking to you guys.

: 1116

00:50:40,999 --> 00:50:41,119

Awesome.

: 1117

00:50:41,379 --> 00:50:41,769

Thanks, Gordon.

: 1118

00:50:41,769 --> 00:50:42,699

Thank you very much.

: 1119

00:50:42,699 --> 00:50:43,449

We appreciate it.

: 1120

00:50:43,629 --> 00:50:44,469

You guys take care.

: 1121

00:50:44,469 --> 00:50:44,742

All right.

: 1122

00:50:44,757 --> 00:50:44,957

All right.

: 1123

00:50:49,033 --> 00:50:54,456

Well, John, Gordon, just brought so

much intelligence and, great examples.

: 1124

00:50:54,510 --> 00:50:55,660

just fantastic.

: 1125

00:50:55,990 --> 00:51:00,430

Example after example of just

amazing what they had to figure out.

: 1126

00:51:00,463 --> 00:51:00,813

Yeah.

: 1127

00:51:00,850 --> 00:51:01,170

Yeah.

: 1128

00:51:01,170 --> 00:51:04,620

And the attention to detail to

me, that's such a huge thing.

: 1129

00:51:04,620 --> 00:51:07,800

And, the big learning I got out

of it was just how prepared he was.

: 1130

00:51:09,465 --> 00:51:13,355

And you know, anybody could be

in a, in a position of being in a

: 1131

00:51:13,355 --> 00:51:16,835

crisis one day, but just staying

ahead of the game is so important.

: 1132

00:51:16,835 --> 00:51:19,855

And it's hard, so hard to see that

sometimes when you're kind of in the

: 1133

00:51:19,865 --> 00:51:21,535

middle of your job day to day, but.

: 1134

00:51:21,705 --> 00:51:25,138

You really need to be able to, prepare for

any type of situation that might pop up.

: 1135

00:51:25,328 --> 00:51:25,658

Yeah.

: 1136

00:51:25,838 --> 00:51:26,098

Yeah.

: 1137

00:51:26,098 --> 00:51:29,258

And even though the way it

unfolded, there's no way they could

: 1138

00:51:29,258 --> 00:51:30,418

have prepared for all of that.

: 1139

00:51:30,718 --> 00:51:33,458

There's no way they could have done

what they did if they hadn't prepared.

: 1140

00:51:33,668 --> 00:51:37,911

I also loved the, the, the notion that

they were able to share best practices

: 1141

00:51:37,911 --> 00:51:41,461

with the industry, because to his

point, that's not good for anybody.

: 1142

00:51:41,621 --> 00:51:45,945

If there's calamity happening, across,

you know, an entire section of tourism,

: 1143

00:51:45,945 --> 00:51:50,025

especially with the way that everything

was unfolding during that time.

: 1144

00:51:50,025 --> 00:51:51,325

everything was falling apart.

: 1145

00:51:51,325 --> 00:51:53,641

So the fact that, they're able

to share how to get through

: 1146

00:51:53,641 --> 00:51:54,961

this that's the right thing to

: 1147

00:51:54,961 --> 00:51:55,301

Do.

: 1148

00:51:56,561 --> 00:51:57,431

. interesting.

: 1149

00:51:57,951 --> 00:52:00,971

Hopefully, hopelessly

unattainable guests for you, John.

: 1150

00:52:01,751 --> 00:52:04,351

I think it's somebody that

we need to be talking to.

: 1151

00:52:04,381 --> 00:52:09,871

We can gain some intelligence on

business and, financial acumen.

: 1152

00:52:09,981 --> 00:52:13,755

And, the person that, I'm reaching

out to here is Warren Buffett.

: 1153

00:52:13,901 --> 00:52:14,981

Oh, good.

: 1154

00:52:15,011 --> 00:52:15,301

Yeah.

: 1155

00:52:15,455 --> 00:52:15,935

Good one.

: 1156

00:52:16,035 --> 00:52:18,545

So, here's my letter to Warren Buffett.

: 1157

00:52:18,841 --> 00:52:20,428

Dear Warren, help.

: 1158

00:52:20,556 --> 00:52:24,386

Please help us understand how

you became an investment genius.

: 1159

00:52:24,426 --> 00:52:27,330

We want to know, no, we need to know Mr.

: 1160

00:52:27,330 --> 00:52:32,280

Oracle of Omaha, your 45 steps ahead

of everyone else, your patience and

: 1161

00:52:32,290 --> 00:52:36,440

perseverance in the market and in

people exudes leadership and confidence.

: 1162

00:52:36,513 --> 00:52:38,563

We believe in you and your actions.

: 1163

00:52:38,573 --> 00:52:41,203

So help us learn on our

podcast, snap decisions.

: 1164

00:52:41,223 --> 00:52:44,733

We'd love to go back to the

beginning, how you found inspiration

: 1165

00:52:44,743 --> 00:52:48,503

in the: 1930

ways to make a thousand dollars.

: 1166

00:52:48,503 --> 00:52:51,896

All that business acumen you gain

from your jobs and your youth, how you

: 1167

00:52:51,896 --> 00:52:55,940

place pinball machines in local barber

shops, how you graduated early from the

: 1168

00:52:55,940 --> 00:53:01,433

in: 1947

you were a millionaire by the early 1960s

: 1169

00:53:02,073 --> 00:53:03,873

and a billionaire by the mid eighties.

: 1170

00:53:04,128 --> 00:53:07,198

But we want to know about the famous

long game you play, the trust you

: 1171

00:53:07,198 --> 00:53:11,125

place in a stock's value, in the people

that run companies, how you're able

: 1172

00:53:11,125 --> 00:53:14,695

to cut through the pressure and the

noise and operate on simple terms.

: 1173

00:53:15,005 --> 00:53:18,725

You're unlike anyone, and you're

still going strong today at 93.

: 1174

00:53:18,941 --> 00:53:23,885

Let's talk on Zoom or at that

Omaha house that you have: 1958

: 1175

00:53:25,085 --> 00:53:28,125

What has and hasn't changed

in the life of Warren Buffett.

: 1176

00:53:28,458 --> 00:53:30,638

Our giant base of listeners

want to hear about it.

: 1177

00:53:30,835 --> 00:53:32,715

Let us know a time that works for you.

: 1178

00:53:32,765 --> 00:53:35,775

Feel free to send your

jet or horse and buggy.

: 1179

00:53:35,918 --> 00:53:37,348

Thanks, Brian and John.

: 1180

00:53:38,658 --> 00:53:39,238

Wow.

: 1181

00:53:39,415 --> 00:53:40,095

That's a good one.

: 1182

00:53:40,281 --> 00:53:43,381

We need to get Warren into the

top of the queue here in terms of

: 1183

00:53:43,708 --> 00:53:44,968

Our hopelessly unattainable guest.

: 1184

00:53:44,968 --> 00:53:48,631

We need to get to him

first because he's 93.

: 1185

00:53:48,631 --> 00:53:51,878

We better hurry.

: 1186

00:53:53,878 --> 00:53:54,358

Indeed.

: 1187

00:53:54,578 --> 00:53:57,598

Although he strikes me as someone who may

actually keep going for quite a while.

: 1188

00:53:57,808 --> 00:54:00,665

Yeah, yeah, he seems, like

he's gonna defeat time.

: 1189

00:54:01,135 --> 00:54:03,545

All right, well, it's a race

between him and Jason Kelsey,

: 1190

00:54:03,565 --> 00:54:05,155

so let's, let's see what we got.

: 1191

00:54:06,935 --> 00:54:07,385

Let's do it.

: 1192

00:54:07,685 --> 00:54:11,425

All right, well thanks, good

episode, loved, loved hearing, from

: 1193

00:54:11,425 --> 00:54:14,625

Gordon, , liked talking to you about

Boeing, and, till next time, eh?

: 1194

00:54:14,785 --> 00:54:15,935

Yeah, let's shut it down.

: 1195

00:54:16,295 --> 00:54:17,635

All right, bye.

: 1196

00:54:17,715 --> 00:54:17,815

See ya.