Speed to Victory: CX leader Jay Baer

Brian: 00:00:05

Hey, John.

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Welcome back.

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John: Hey, hey, good to see you, Brian.

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Brian: Good to see you.

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Uh, I heard you moved

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John: I moved.

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Nothing, nothing like a good

move to cleanse your heart,

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your soul, and your house.

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Brian: a good, uh, buyers

and sellers experience.

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John: all things considered,

it was a relatively smooth

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experience, but I'm tired.

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Tired and disorganized.

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Brian: I think everybody I've talked

to that moves says I'm not moving

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again ever for the rest of my life.

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Full stop.

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John: Those words may have escaped

my lips a few times in the past week.

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Die in this house and then

you can just set it aflame.

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Brian: Well, I think, uh, speaking

of experiences, , we have a

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really good show today that really

gets into, consumer experience.

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John: Yes.

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Brian: And, , our guest, , Jay Baer

is an expert in consumer experience

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and CX and, um, business growth.

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And so really excited to talk to him.

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before we do that, I want to hop

in here and talk about some news

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we're seeing, , on technology

relating to the consumer experience.

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So, recently on an investor call, Wendy's.

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The fast food chain announced plans

next year to release new technology that

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would help facilitate dynamic pricing,

so that local stores could change menu

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costs as they needed or wanted to.

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News outlets jumped all over this and

started touting it as surge pricing, you

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know, kind of like when Uber or airline

jacks up costs when demand is the highest.

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John: they sure did.

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Brian: Yeah, and so not surprisingly,

there's an immediate backlash

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and concerns of price gouging.

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Inflation, obviously, as well,

has been a serious concern for

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people everywhere, so the timing

of this could not have been worse.

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Jokes flew around social media

that the only time to go to

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Wendy's would be between 2 and 4 p.

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m.

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And, uh, according to the New

York Post, Wendy's now ranks

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already as the most expensive fast

food chain in the United States.

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John: Oh,

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Brian: After already inflating

their, um, menu costs 35 percent

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over the last couple of years,

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and, one more not surprising thing.

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immediately, Wendy's tried

to clarify what it had meant.

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They said that they would not be

implementing such type pricing with

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this new technology or would they change

prices when demand is the highest?

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Instead, they were saying that,

they would attempt to bring in new

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customers by actually lowering prices

or offering specials when demand is

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low, ultimate spin spin zone here.

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John, So, what do you think the takeaway

is here for brands as they look to

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improve their business through technology?

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And, should consumers trust how brands

continue to evolve and grow, uh, their

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businesses and as they use technology?

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John: right.

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Well, first of all, I think the

brand should stop using technology

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to manufacture hype before they've

thought through how they're actually

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going to use it, which I think

was the case here with Wendy's.

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And there's a real corporate

communications lesson

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to be learned in this.

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, when you called my attention to this, I

went back and I read the original quote,

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which was from the CEO, Kirk Tanner,

during that quarterly earnings call.

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And he said, beginning as early as

: 2025

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enhanced features like dynamic

pricing and day part offerings.

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Of course, everyone would

interpret, quote, dynamic pricing

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and day part offerings to mean

surge pricing's coming, right?

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And Corporate Communications 101 would

have told them to manage that message.

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So either, you know, their Corporate

Communications team did say, Don't say

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it like this or the CEO ignored it.

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I would guess or they actually

were planning to do surge pricing.

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So what a what a mess.

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I guess , if the intention was actually

about getting smart around offering

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day part discounts, that's great.

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But if they were seriously considering

turning their menu into a Russian roulette

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of pricing, I think that's stupid.

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That whole concept is just at odds

with what I would say is the core

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promise of any fast food restaurant,

which is predictability, right?

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Promotions, cool.

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Everyone does that, right?

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Let's get people into

stores when stores are slow.

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Brian: Yeah.

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What they weren't doing was A system

that automatically changes the price.

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I mean, they were definitely giving local

stores more control over the ability

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to change price, which they already do.

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I mean, like the cost of a hamburger at

a Wendy's in New York costs different

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than a hamburger in South Carolina.

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So, it's not like they're going

to be sitting in in headquarters,

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surgically changing prices by the

minute based off the amount of cars

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that are in the drive through line.

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So, I don't know that they were

going full Uber on this, but,

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the look of this is brutal.

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So, like you said, uh, this is not

a good look for their communications

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team, which by the way, was probably

saying exactly what you were saying

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and they probably get rid of the rules.

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John: Yeah, that's my guess.

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Alright, so can I pivot to another

story that I noticed that's about

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that idea of using technologies

to improve a customer experience?

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Brian: Sure.

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John: Sure.

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Alright.

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I just saw that Verizon One of America's

favorite punching bags, just created

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a new chief customer experience

officer role for someone named Brian

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Higgins and recruited a Walmart

executive, Dory Butler SV as SVP of CX.

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Now, I don't know Brian or

Dory, but congratulations

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and good luck to them both.

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That is a big, big and

probably thankless job.

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So Ryan, thinking about Verizon in the

past, how, in your mind, how have they

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traditionally positioned themselves?

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What are they focused on?

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Brian: Network quality.

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John: Correct.

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Well, these moves are intended

to make customer experience, also

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a competitive differentiator.

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, just like they did around network quality.

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So, Verizon has now brought all of its

customer care teams together under one

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department, which I kind of thought

they would have done a while ago,

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but good that they're doing it now.

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, and they're saying that nearly 75% Of

their customer care calls are small,

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but kind of annoying issues that came

from some sort of, you know, small

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break in their customer experience, and

they're saying that a I will play a big

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role in Verizon's customer care event.

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So with all the news and the

commotion around AI these days,

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I think this is where there's

some really interesting promise.

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So according to, This new head of customer

experience, there are more than 10, 000

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articles in Verizon's knowledge base

that provide informational promotions or

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problems that a customer may be having.

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So AI can synthesize all that info

and deliver it to the customer

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service reps in real time.

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and personally, I love the

idea of talking to a human who

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understands what I'm looking for.

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And has AI in the background,

helping them focus on being more

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helpful, empathetic, and, expert.

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And if they got 10, 000 articles at their

disposal, though, that's getting clearly

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synthesized by AI, they'll be more expert.

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Brian: Yeah.

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Well, let me just say one

thing about AI, and I love it.

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And that's great, but they

couldn't be doing this without AI.

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Like AI can just make it go faster.

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If they have those

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John: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Brian: Throwing the AI on top

of this to make it prettier and

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put a nice little bow on it.

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Some lipstick is great.

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.

John: You think it's just you think it's just prettifying it

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Brian: Well, I mean, it'll make it go

faster, but at the same time, like, why

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couldn't they have already been using

the database of all these articles?

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I

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John: well because because the database

of the articles sure it's there but having

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something really quickly figuring out

what my problem is and what's unique about

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my problem and based on all the archives

pull the right exact information for me is

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something I think you're asking an awful

lot of customer service rep who maybe went

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through a, you know, Few weeks or months

of training and it's new to the job.

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Brian: I mean, look, if you want to be a

Verizon apologist about that, that's fine.

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It shouldn't be that difficult.

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A lot of these things

are internal problems.

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And so, yeah, can you get an AI to

help feed them the answers quickly?

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Yes.

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But you're enabling people to not do

the extra work to understand , what

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the problems are to begin with, but

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John: Well, yeah.

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And I would argue that if you've talked

to, many organizations, customer service

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reps, you realize they haven't been

properly trained and they don't have

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all the information at the fingertips.

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So if that means I get less frustrated

and I spend less time screaming,

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uh, at a, at a phone tree, cool.

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Uh, and I would have to say, I think

that's the first time anyone has

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ever called me a Verizon apologist.

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Brian: that is, is working towards you

trying to improve the experience is great.

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I like that they're bringing the teams

together, which, you know, Ted, why

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didn't that happen in 2000, but Hey.

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You bring it in new people.

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They're coming up with new ideas

and I'm sure there's a good reason

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why they were separate, but,

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John: well, you've been in corporate

America, you know, they probably

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were together and then they got

separated and then we got pulled

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back together and separated and

now they're back together again.

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Brian: completely.

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all right, well, from there,

let's go to our guests.

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John: he's gonna be so

much more interesting than

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me, the Verizon apologist.

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Brian: Uh,

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I'm beyond excited to introduce,

our guest for today's episode.

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He's an expert in customer

experience and business growth.

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He's a researcher and author,

a founder, a podcaster.

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He's in the professional speakers

hall of fame, a top 30 global

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guru in CX and internet marketing.

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He's my favorite keynote at a conference.

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You're going to love him.

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He's relatable, he's

funny, and he makes sense.

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His past books like Utility, Hug

Your Haters, and Talk Triggers

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are companions for every marketer.

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His latest book is called The

Time to Win, which focuses on

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businesses taking advantage of

speed of service while they can.

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And I don't want to leave this out.

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He's now a major tequila influencer.

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So let's invite in some

conversation with Jay Baer.

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Jay, we're so happy to

have you on the show today.

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John: Hey, Jay.

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Jay: be here.

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Hey everybody.

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How you doing?

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Thanks for having me on the show.

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John: Thanks for joining us

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Brian: Yeah, I really appreciate it.

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So, let's get into this

book, the time to win.

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You know, businesses today face

so many challenges to reach

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and interact with customers.

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We always talk about the amount

of noise and distractions today.

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There's too much going

on in everybody's world.

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You're focused on responsiveness

for businesses and the

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need to build a Sure of it.

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So it's so important if you don't act

quickly, you're going to miss out.

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The value of time is, uh, incomprehensible

and, if you don't do this right, how can

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customers even trust you to do the job

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Jay: Yeah.

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I mean, you've probably heard the

phrase good, fast, cheap, pick any two.

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It's pretty common business parlance.

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You know, doesn't really work anymore

because you can decide whether

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you want to be cheap and fast.

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Or quality and fast, but fast is non

negotiable, generally speaking, right?

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That's one that you kind

of have to do that one.

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And then you can pick whether

you want to be the, you know,

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you want to be Jiffy lube, right?

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Or you want to be, uh, you

know, the opposite, which

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is emergency plumber, right?

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It's going to, you know, they'll

come, they'll come Sunday night.

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But it's going to cost you, right?

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Speed is no longer kind of an

optional exercise for most businesses.

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And, and look, I wrote the book just

when AI, um, as we currently think

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about it was, was breaking and the

implications for AI on expectations

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around response are going to be.

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Overwhelming, right?

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I mean, it just everything can happen so

much faster without human intervention.

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And so the culture is going to ratchet

up even more around speed expectations.

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John: Yeah.

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And Jay, before we go too much

further, I just have to say thank

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you for writing a business book

that is consumable in an hour.

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If I have a

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Jay: it.

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I mean, the book is only like,

I don't know, it's like: 5000

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words or something, right?

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John: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Jay: to do it that way, John.

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I've written six other business books

that are like, you know, traditional size.

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And I started writing this one.

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I'm like, wait a second, hold on.

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I can't write a full length

business book that requires the

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reader to invest five or six hours.

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What's the book about speed.

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That doesn't, it doesn't

make any sense, right?

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It's like the exact opposite of

the advice contained in the pages.

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Uh, so I'm like, wait a second.

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What if.

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I wrote a very short book that you

can read in under an hour that has

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all the meat and none of the fat.

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And it's actually been a really

interesting lesson, like how that

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book is merchandised and sold and

everything has been much different,

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of course, than a regular book.

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But people love it.

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Especially at events because you know

what sucks when you go to a conference

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and they give you like the hardcover

book from the keynote speaker and then

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you're trying to hold a book in one hand

and like drink a Chardonnay in the other

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hand and like shake hands with your third

hand like it's a very complicated dance.

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So this book is so small you put

it in your shirt pocket your jacket

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pocket your handbag whatever.

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Uh, I will say this, however,

and I, and I, I learned this.

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It's late and a hard way.

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It is a very hard book to sign

because it's so small and it's soft

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cover that it's hard for me to open

it and hold it open and sign it.

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So that, that part has actually been

a little bit of a hassle, but other

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than that, it's been successful

and I would do it again because you

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know, look, I'm, I'm not ashamed to

admit that most people, including me,

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don't actually read business books.

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Yeah.

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John: finished one.

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Jay: And they skim up and why not?

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Because I'm guilty of this too, right?

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In the first chapter, here's my thesis.

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And then you repeat that thesis 11 more

chapters in a slightly different way.

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Right.

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And that's just the nature of it.

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Right.

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But, but publishers trust me, cause I

worked with all the major publishers.

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They want that book to be 225 pages or

longer because that's the standard size

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that actual physical bookstores require.

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You know, this, we're writing books

this length because bookstores want

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them to be wide enough to be shelved.

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Like, is that the tail

wagging the dog or what?

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Brian: seriously?

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Jay: Well, I mean, look, I, I am an

author and I love books and I read books

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every day, but the last time I went to

a physical bookstore it's been a bit.

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Brian: Yeah.

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Did you have to have a rule in your head?

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Like, you know, sell yourself on keeping

something in or did you just kind of

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create an outline and just sparsely.

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Jay: It's funny, uh, actually I did it

the same way, Brian, that I do all my

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books actually, just with more rigor.

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So I, write books in a process that

is not unique, but certainly unusual

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compared to most business authors

in that I will write a speech.

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I go out and do that speech 25 or

40 times and then once I have the

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speech dialed, then I write the book

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John: Interesting.

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Yeah, that's

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Jay: a couple of reasons.

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John: That's backwards

for most people, right?

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Jay: Absolutely backwards.

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Uh, and I do it for a couple of reasons.

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One, it makes the book flow better

because it's got a narrative.

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It's got a beginning, a middle and an end.

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The way speech has a

beginning and middle and end.

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But the real reason I do it.

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I am allergic to using examples

that people have heard of before.

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So you'll never hear me talk about

Amazon or Starbucks or Apple or

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anything like that in any book I

ever write because it's so axiomatic.

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It's just boring, right?

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So, what I do is as I'm working out

this material, In every speech, I

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say, hope you enjoyed today's program.

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If you've got any examples of a company

that is faster than you expected them

321

: 00:15:11

to be, or slower than you wanted them

to be, please, please, please, uh,

322

: 00:15:15

come see me right after I finished.

323

: 00:15:16

Cause I'm collecting

stories for my new book.

324

: 00:15:19

And so almost all the stories that

I have in almost all my books came

325

: 00:15:22

from audiences who, who saw me speak

or like, oh, I've got an example.

326

: 00:15:26

And that's why I've got all

these weird, different industries

327

: 00:15:29

from all over the world.

328

: 00:15:30

And so in this case, all

I did was the same idea.

329

: 00:15:33

I just didn't add more stuff.

330

: 00:15:35

It was like, okay, instead of one example,

instead of five examples, let's do one.

331

: 00:15:38

So essentially it's the

same format of a book.

332

: 00:15:40

I just didn't add all the extra

ornaments on a Christmas tree.

333

: 00:15:43

Brian: got it.

334

: 00:15:43

I love your examples.

335

: 00:15:45

Uh, I feel like they always

really reinforce your points

336

: 00:15:48

John: Oh, yeah.

337

: 00:15:48

The best smelling plumber in Los Angeles?

338

: 00:15:51

Jay: Yeah.

339

: 00:15:51

Mike diamond, Mike diamond

plumbers, smell good plumbers.

340

: 00:15:54

That's on every truck.

341

: 00:15:56

The funny thing about Mike diamond

plumbers is if you go to Google

342

: 00:15:59

and search Mike diamond plumbers

and look at their reviews.

343

: 00:16:02

Like all the reviews, like

he really did smell good.

344

: 00:16:04

Like it's, it is, it is hilarious.

345

: 00:16:06

They have a house cologne.

346

: 00:16:08

They literally have a house cologne,

uh, for, for their plumbers.

347

: 00:16:11

When you, when you get a job there,

they give you a little bottles.

348

: 00:16:13

Like, this is what you're going to wear.

349

: 00:16:15

John: So is that an example of

something that came from one

350

: 00:16:17

of your audience members or is

that something you experienced

351

: 00:16:20

Jay: So that particular example

came from Daniel Lemon, who co

352

: 00:16:24

authored Talk Triggers with me.

353

: 00:16:26

Daniel, uh, is an amazing thought

leader and, and has some other books

354

: 00:16:31

of his own as well and, and worked very

closely with me as my head of strategy

355

: 00:16:35

at my consulting firm for many years.

356

: 00:16:36

He lives in Los Angeles and

so he literally needed a

357

: 00:16:39

plumber, Mike Diamond plumbers.

358

: 00:16:41

And he's like, wait, the Smogon plumber.

359

: 00:16:42

And I'm writing a book

about word of mouth.

360

: 00:16:43

Amazing.

361

: 00:16:44

That, that, that example, like fell

into our lap, out of the sky, which

362

: 00:16:48

are, which sometimes are the best ones.

363

: 00:16:50

Brian: Of all the tidbits you've gotten

from like local companies and things for

364

: 00:16:54

your books, which one's your favorite?

365

: 00:16:55

Jay: Oh, geez.

366

: 00:16:56

I've never been asked that before.

367

: 00:16:57

And it's kind of

368

: 00:16:58

Brian: Like thousands of them, so I

369

: 00:16:59

John: Yeah, just just

pick from a catalog of

370

: 00:17:01

Jay: I mean, I, I would say probably

the one that I go back to the most

371

: 00:17:05

often, because I think it resonates with

people, is, is Skip's Kitchen, which is

372

: 00:17:09

the, the restaurant in Sacramento, where

when you order your meal, They fan out a

373

: 00:17:15

deck of playing cards face down in front

of you and you pick a card and if you

374

: 00:17:18

get a joker, your entire meal is free.

375

: 00:17:21

use that story a lot because it's

so easy to execute for businesses

376

: 00:17:25

and it doesn't matter whether

you're in the restaurant business or

377

: 00:17:28

you're a chiropractor or whatever.

378

: 00:17:30

People understand the power.

379

: 00:17:33

Of that technique and how and why

it generates so much goodwill and so

380

: 00:17:38

much word of mouth for that business.

381

: 00:17:39

So I tend to use that example.

382

: 00:17:41

Because people really get it.

383

: 00:17:43

They're like, Oh, that is cool.

384

: 00:17:44

Oh, I understand how I

could possibly do that, etc.

385

: 00:17:47

Brian: that's cool.

386

: 00:17:47

Jay: But I have a whole database.

387

: 00:17:48

That's how I do it.

388

: 00:17:49

So I collect all the

389

: 00:17:50

Brian: Yeah.

390

: 00:17:50

Jay: And then I tag them.

391

: 00:17:51

So I have a whole like tagging system.

392

: 00:17:53

And so we tag them by B2B versus

B2C, big company, small company.

393

: 00:17:57

Is it word of mouth?

394

: 00:17:58

Is it customer experience?

395

: 00:17:59

Is it bad customer experience?

396

: 00:18:00

Um, et cetera.

397

: 00:18:01

You're kind of what's the shtick.

398

: 00:18:03

And then is it USA?

399

: 00:18:04

Is it Canada?

400

: 00:18:05

Is it international?

401

: 00:18:06

So.

402

: 00:18:07

When I get an assignment to do an

event, like I'm doing one for Bobcat,

403

: 00:18:10

um, the heavy equipment company in two

weeks, I can go into the database and

404

: 00:18:14

say, all right, what, what material

do I already have that might be

405

: 00:18:17

most appropriate for this industry?

406

: 00:18:19

And then if I don't feel like I've got

gold, then I'll go find some stuff.

407

: 00:18:23

Brian: That's, that's great.

408

: 00:18:24

I was doing some research last night and,

my kids were like, what are you doing?

409

: 00:18:26

And I showed them the, um,

the pasta playlist on Spotify

410

: 00:18:30

Jay: Isn't that amazing?

411

: 00:18:31

John: So cool.

412

: 00:18:32

Brian: Yeah.

413

: 00:18:32

Can you, can you tell that one real fast?

414

: 00:18:33

Jay: That's a relatively new one, um, that

they haven't been doing it too long and

415

: 00:18:37

I haven't been talking about it too long.

416

: 00:18:39

The thing about pasta is when you

make it perfectly it's perfect, but

417

: 00:18:42

when you make it imperfectly it sucks.

418

: 00:18:46

And what people don't understand very

often about dried pasta is that, of

419

: 00:18:50

course, there are many different shapes.

420

: 00:18:51

You got penne, you got

spaghetti, you got rigatoni, etc.

421

: 00:18:53

And they each have different densities.

422

: 00:18:54

Consequently, you really should

change your cook time slightly

423

: 00:18:58

based on the density of the

dried pasta that you're using.

424

: 00:19:00

But nobody talks about this

and nobody writes it down.

425

: 00:19:02

And so, um, Barilla, which is either

the first or second largest provider

426

: 00:19:06

of dried pasta, I'm not certain.

427

: 00:19:07

Was doing a lot of social

media, listening as you should.

428

: 00:19:10

And they realized that people were

like, sometimes aggravated about

429

: 00:19:13

the pasta, not coming out, right.

430

: 00:19:15

Undercooked, overcooked.

431

: 00:19:16

They're like, huh, how could we fix this?

432

: 00:19:18

So they, they went to Spotify and they

created a series of custom playlists.

433

: 00:19:23

One for spaghetti, one for

rigatoni, one for penne, et cetera.

434

: 00:19:26

So the way it works is

you boil your water.

435

: 00:19:28

As soon as the water is at a

rolling boil, you hit play,

436

: 00:19:31

you put the pasta in the water.

437

: 00:19:32

And the playlist is a whole

series of kind of Italian songs in

438

: 00:19:35

keeping with the theme of pasta.

439

: 00:19:37

The second the playlist is concluded,

last song is over, you take the pasta out

440

: 00:19:41

of the water and it is perfectly cooked

for that particular shape of pasta.

441

: 00:19:46

And hundreds of thousands of people

have downloaded these playlists.

442

: 00:19:49

I just think it's, of course,

doesn't cost anything.

443

: 00:19:51

It's just a really good example

of transcending the transaction,

444

: 00:19:54

which so much good marketing

really is rooted in that principle.

445

: 00:19:57

Brian: Yeah, it's, it's a

great experiential thing.

446

: 00:19:59

Just, you know, you're cooking pasta,

you're playing the Italian music.

447

: 00:20:03

John: Yeah, that's a it's a great example.

448

: 00:20:05

Jay, we go back to my talk

about your most recent book.

449

: 00:20:09

You talk about some examples where.

450

: 00:20:12

Too fast is a problem.

451

: 00:20:14

You know, you, you, obviously you, you

make the compelling case for businesses

452

: 00:20:18

need to evolve to become faster at

delivering great experiences, but too

453

: 00:20:22

fast is not what you want if you're going

to a tattoo artist and, and, and nothing

454

: 00:20:26

Jay: yeah, yeah,

455

: 00:20:27

or an eye, or an eye surgeon, or any

number of things, or a divorce attorney.

456

: 00:20:32

Um,

457

: 00:20:33

John: And you also talk about some of

the ways companies are kind of pretending

458

: 00:20:36

to take their sweet time to deliver

a thoughtful answer to, like, a chat

459

: 00:20:40

question, right, where you get little dots

or even, you know, you hear the little,

460

: 00:20:44

if you're on the phone call, you hear the

little do do do do do, you know, like, I'm

461

: 00:20:47

thinking, uh, even though AI is spitting

it out pretty much instantaneously.

462

: 00:20:51

Yeah.

463

: 00:20:51

Jay: yeah.

464

: 00:20:52

It's interesting, the reason I wrote

this book, well the reason I write

465

: 00:20:54

all books that I write is, is, I see

what I think is a pattern or a trend

466

: 00:20:59

or an opportunity for businesses

to outperform their competition.

467

: 00:21:02

And then I researched that trend,

doing a lot of first party research,

468

: 00:21:06

which costs me a ton of money, but you

know, I'm not just going to stand on

469

: 00:21:09

a stage and tell you to do something

if I'm just, I don't have any proof.

470

: 00:21:12

So as always, I did a bunch

of research on this topic.

471

: 00:21:14

And my thesis was coming

out of the pandemic, we care

472

: 00:21:17

about time more than ever.

473

: 00:21:18

And, and that how we use time.

474

: 00:21:21

is more precious to us

than it was pre pandemic.

475

: 00:21:24

And, and all these trends that we

were talking about in the early post

476

: 00:21:28

pandemic days, great resignation,

people working from home, not wanting

477

: 00:21:32

to commute, et cetera, all this stuff.

478

: 00:21:34

I was like, this is all the same trend.

479

: 00:21:35

Like this is all the same trend, which

is we care about time more than ever.

480

: 00:21:38

You can call it whatever you want.

481

: 00:21:40

And there's different

manifestations of that trend.

482

: 00:21:41

But the trend is that we care

about time more than ever.

483

: 00:21:45

I wonder if that's actually true

or I just think it's true and I did

484

: 00:21:47

the research and it is in fact true.

485

: 00:21:49

Two thirds of customers now say

that speed is as important as price.

486

: 00:21:53

And so the reality is when I talk

about this in the book and on stage

487

: 00:21:56

when I'm asking businesses to do It's

not overhaul your entire business.

488

: 00:22:00

It's elevate speed on your

list of priorities because

489

: 00:22:04

your customers already have.

490

: 00:22:06

And if you do that, all the data show that

customers will be happier, more loyal,

491

: 00:22:11

will literally spend more money, will

tell more people about your business,

492

: 00:22:14

like all the things you're trying to

achieve, will work if you're just faster.

493

: 00:22:19

But, the point is true,

like, you can't take that.

494

: 00:22:23

Dogma because there are circumstances

where you can be too fast and we are too

495

: 00:22:27

fast What happens is it decays trust?

496

: 00:22:30

so if you if you call a Surgeon,

you're like hey, I need to have

497

: 00:22:35

this thing cut out of my shoulder.

498

: 00:22:37

You're like cool What are you

doing in the next five minutes?

499

: 00:22:40

You'd be like, wait a second, this,

500

: 00:22:42

John: Why are you free right now to

501

: 00:22:44

Jay: you are too available.

502

: 00:22:45

This concerns me, right?

503

: 00:22:47

So there's a very tight relationship

that we studied in the book, um,

504

: 00:22:51

between time expectations and trust.

505

: 00:22:55

So what you want in every business is, is

in every interaction with every customer.

506

: 00:23:00

It's like the Goldilocks

zone for responsiveness.

507

: 00:23:02

It's the perfect amount of elapsed time.

508

: 00:23:04

And we call it the right now.

509

: 00:23:06

The right now is the, like, perfect spot.

510

: 00:23:09

And it's certainly not too slow,

because people hate to wait.

511

: 00:23:11

But it's also not too fast,

because then they're like, Wait a

512

: 00:23:14

second, this is gonna be terrible.

513

: 00:23:15

So, the right now, the magic

formula, is to be slightly faster

514

: 00:23:21

than customers expect you to be.

515

: 00:23:22

So my, uh, this is not an example

that you guys have heard because

516

: 00:23:25

it's not in the book or anything is

one of my friends, uh, good friends

517

: 00:23:29

is an airline pilot for American.

518

: 00:23:30

And he's the master of this slightly

faster than customers expect.

519

: 00:23:34

When he gets something in his headset

from air traffic control that says,

520

: 00:23:38

Captain Mendler, there's a plane

behind you can't back out of the gate.

521

: 00:23:41

12 minute delay.

522

: 00:23:42

He goes on the intercom says,

Hey, welcome to America airlines

523

: 00:23:46

flight, whatever, from San Diego to.

524

: 00:23:48

to Dallas.

525

: 00:23:49

I just heard from air traffic control.

526

: 00:23:50

There's a plane behind us.

527

: 00:23:51

We can't back out just yet.

528

: 00:23:52

they're expecting a 15 minute delay.

529

: 00:23:55

So then when air traffic control gets

back to him, he says, okay, you're,

530

: 00:23:57

you're, you're, you're clear to move back.

531

: 00:23:59

And it's only been 11 minutes.

532

: 00:24:00

He gets back on the intercom and

says, okay, ladies and gentlemen, I

533

: 00:24:03

told you 15, but it's only been 11.

534

: 00:24:05

We're backing out now.

535

: 00:24:06

Can't wait to have a great flight.

536

: 00:24:07

Right.

537

: 00:24:07

And everybody's like psyched, right?

538

: 00:24:09

They still had to wait 11 minutes,

but they're fired up because it's

539

: 00:24:11

an expectations game more so than

a raw speed game in some cases.

540

: 00:24:17

John: And you talk about, that expectation

game and going back to the idea of

541

: 00:24:20

trust Obviously, speed is critical,

but there are times when there's a

542

: 00:24:25

reason for it taking a certain time

that might be longer than the customer

543

: 00:24:29

expectation, but addressing that

expectation up front saves the day.

544

: 00:24:33

Can you talk a little more about that

idea of, you know, being up front

545

: 00:24:36

about how long things are going to take

versus informing them on the back end?

546

: 00:24:40

Jay: Yeah.

547

: 00:24:40

And that's the, the, the latter is how

business has been operated for a long

548

: 00:24:43

time, which is if you miss a deadline,

you apologize afterwards, right?

549

: 00:24:47

And you sort of take the hit.

550

: 00:24:49

, now that two things are true, one,

people care about time more than ever.

551

: 00:24:53

And two, people aren't nearly as

good, especially young consumers,

552

: 00:24:57

aren't nearly as good at

accepting that because we said so.

553

: 00:25:01

Right.

554

: 00:25:01

I mean, it's just, they just

don't, they, they want to know why.

555

: 00:25:05

And partially it's the rise

of the internet, right?

556

: 00:25:07

Like information and knowledge is

all around us like air in these times

557

: 00:25:12

in a way that it wasn't in the past.

558

: 00:25:15

I was having this conversation

with my wife the other day.

559

: 00:25:17

We were watching something Grammys.

560

: 00:25:18

I can't remember exactly.

561

: 00:25:19

And, and Cher was on I

was like, how old is Cher?

562

: 00:25:23

She's like, I don't know.

563

: 00:25:26

Like, we, we really didn't know.

564

: 00:25:28

John: You've been the

same age for 40 years.

565

: 00:25:30

Jay: yeah, it looks the same for sure.

566

: 00:25:32

Uh, so I just grabbed my phone,

you know, Siri, how old is Cher?

567

: 00:25:36

Uh, and I think it's 78.

568

: 00:25:38

Hold on, let me check.

569

: 00:25:39

Hey Siri, how old is Cher?

570

: 00:25:41

We're reenacting it for the podcast.

571

: 00:25:42

77, 77.

572

: 00:25:44

and that surprised me a little bit.

573

: 00:25:45

And then I thought, you know, When we

were first married, if we wanted to

574

: 00:25:49

know how old Cher was, we would have

had to get in the car, we would have

575

: 00:25:55

to drive to the library when it's open,

we'd have to meet with a reference

576

: 00:25:59

librarian, who presumably, would

have a book of celebrities and their

577

: 00:26:03

birthdates, and that reference librarian

would help us find the piece on Cher,

578

: 00:26:08

now, that would have taken,

I don't know, two hours?

579

: 00:26:12

Brian: Yeah.

580

: 00:26:12

Jay: And no,

581

: 00:26:13

John: the right window, it would

582

: 00:26:14

Jay: yeah, and

583

: 00:26:15

no,

584

: 00:26:15

John: you would have had to wait.

585

: 00:26:16

Jay: no sane or employed person

would, would spend that kind of time.

586

: 00:26:21

And so you know what we did in those days?

587

: 00:26:23

It was a, it was a novel concept.

588

: 00:26:25

We would just say, I don't know.

589

: 00:26:27

That information is evidently unknowable.

590

: 00:26:30

And we were totally okay

591

: 00:26:31

John: again, that was good enough for us,

592

: 00:26:33

Jay: People are not okay

with I don't know anymore.

593

: 00:26:36

So if you're going to disappoint them,

or you're going to bait and switch

594

: 00:26:39

them intentionally or unintentionally,

or you're going to confuse them,

595

: 00:26:41

whatever, you just have to explain it.

596

: 00:26:43

And you have to explain it in a way

that satiates their need to know.

597

: 00:26:47

You proactively inoculate against

people's ire around time, as opposed

598

: 00:26:53

to hoping for the best on the back end.

599

: 00:26:56

Brian: uh, I can't tell you how many,

uh, parties always ended with arguments

600

: 00:26:59

around what, you know, what was the

answer to a question and you just, it's

601

: 00:27:03

great, or you thought somebody was a

genius and you just didn't know, you

602

: 00:27:06

know, that's so much easier to have

conspiracy theories back then, cause you

603

: 00:27:10

just had to be like, is that really true?

604

: 00:27:11

Right.

605

: 00:27:13

Jay: about bar bets.

606

: 00:27:15

There's no books about bar bets now.

607

: 00:27:16

I just ask my phone.

608

: 00:27:17

Brian: Right.

609

: 00:27:18

You're quick to also say that, being

fast doesn't always mean being free.

610

: 00:27:21

And so everybody, uh, knows about the

concept of, you know, the fast pass

611

: 00:27:27

from Disney, uh, you have some cool

examples about how other companies are

612

: 00:27:30

employing convenience in exchange , for

additional fees and things like that.

613

: 00:27:34

Jay: Yeah.

614

: 00:27:34

You know, and at first, when I started

thinking about this, I believed it to

615

: 00:27:39

be really a, a, a technique for solving

your own Kind of volume problems that

616

: 00:27:46

that, you know, Disney Disney parks in

particular are trying to even out the flow

617

: 00:27:52

of guests so that it's not a stampede.

618

: 00:27:54

And consequently, you do a fast pass.

619

: 00:27:56

They call it genie plus.

620

: 00:27:57

Now, at one point, it's called

lightning lane, I believe.

621

: 00:27:59

And so the idea is that you pay an extra

fee and you get to enter the park earlier.

622

: 00:28:03

Beer festivals sometimes do this, they

have an hour before a general admission

623

: 00:28:08

that costs a little bit more and you get

access to beers without a huge crowd, etc.

624

: 00:28:12

And so I always thought about that

premise in the context of physical

625

: 00:28:18

events and crowd management.

626

: 00:28:19

But then I started thinking about we

mentioned it earlier kind of the the

627

: 00:28:22

emergency plumber kind of folks right

like and it's because I had an emergency

628

: 00:28:26

plumber and I was like, well, wait a

second, you know, I needed them to come

629

: 00:28:29

out Sunday night and they're like, sure,

but we're going to charge you more.

630

: 00:28:32

And I thought, well, that's weird.

631

: 00:28:33

Why isn't there like an emergency deli?

632

: 00:28:36

Like, why isn't there?

633

: 00:28:37

You know, why?

634

: 00:28:37

Why can't you?

635

: 00:28:38

You know, if, if, if I care that much

about it, why can't I pay more to get

636

: 00:28:44

whatever I want whenever I want it?

637

: 00:28:46

And I started to, to research this and,

and in the, in the, in the big research

638

: 00:28:50

project that underpins the book, The

Time to Win, which you can get on Amazon.

639

: 00:28:54

The book's only like

9 cause it's so small.

640

: 00:28:56

and what we found was that one in

four customers will pay as much as 50

641

: 00:29:03

percent more to in four customers will

pay as much as 50 percent more to not

642

: 00:29:08

wait and, and, and for whatever reason.

643

: 00:29:10

Um, they, they procrastinated.

644

: 00:29:12

Um, they got more money than

they probably should have.

645

: 00:29:15

They just want stuff now.

646

: 00:29:17

There's a lot of reasons

why that might be the case.

647

: 00:29:19

But that is a colossal

financial opportunity.

648

: 00:29:23

And not just for emergency plumbers.

649

: 00:29:25

And so then I started to collect

other stories of people doing it.

650

: 00:29:28

And in fact, it's been great.

651

: 00:29:29

Um, as I've toured this presentation

around the world, a lot of people

652

: 00:29:32

have come up to me in the events

and be like, Oh yeah, I do that.

653

: 00:29:35

So, you know, there's like a

chiropractor in Dallas who does the

654

: 00:29:38

late night, your back's messed up.

655

: 00:29:40

I'll, you know, I'm going to

charge a double, but I can fix it.

656

: 00:29:42

There's a guy who sell, he has

a store retail store that sells,

657

: 00:29:45

um, fancy pens, like writing

instruments and stuff in New Jersey.

658

: 00:29:49

And a lot of his customers are

buying business gifts or gifts

659

: 00:29:53

for their boss, et cetera.

660

: 00:29:54

And they always seem to wait

to the last minute and like,

661

: 00:29:57

Oh, I need a gift for my boss.

662

: 00:29:58

I'm going to get a pen.

663

: 00:29:59

Oh, but his birthday's tomorrow.

664

: 00:30:00

Can you FedEx it for me?

665

: 00:30:01

And he's always passed

along the FedEx fee.

666

: 00:30:04

But I said, well, are you

charging extra for this?

667

: 00:30:06

Like instantaneous, you

know, pen, shopping.

668

: 00:30:09

He's like, no.

669

: 00:30:10

And I'm like, well, that sounds like

a fast pass that you should institute.

670

: 00:30:13

And he has now and it's,

and it's going great.

671

: 00:30:15

So almost every business can

do this, can offer a fast pass.

672

: 00:30:19

And I realize now I sold my

consulting firm a couple of years

673

: 00:30:22

ago, but man, I'm so stupid.

674

: 00:30:24

I should have been doing it the

whole time because we would have, we

675

: 00:30:26

would literally have big companies

stacked up like planes on a runway.

676

: 00:30:29

Waiting for us to work on strategic

plans for them and a big company like

677

: 00:30:33

a CVS would call me like hey Can you

do our strategic plan and we'd be like,

678

: 00:30:36

yeah But we can't start for three months

because we got other people in the queue.

679

: 00:30:41

And what I should have said is hells

Yeah, it's just gonna be an extra 20

680

: 00:30:45

percent surcharge and then you can be

next and then and then people I say Well,

681

: 00:30:48

what happens to the one that was gonna

be next we have to bump down and here's

682

: 00:30:52

how you do it We're going to charge

you 20 percent more for you to be next.

683

: 00:30:54

And then the one that you bump

down, you say, Hey, terribly, sorry.

684

: 00:30:58

we had an emergency client come in.

685

: 00:30:59

It's going to delay your project

for three weeks, but we're going

686

: 00:31:02

to give you a 10 percent rebate.

687

: 00:31:03

You okay with that?

688

: 00:31:04

Sure.

689

: 00:31:05

So you make 20, you give

back 10, you profit 10.

690

: 00:31:09

And all you're doing is

changing your sequence,

691

: 00:31:11

John: changing the order.

692

: 00:31:11

Jay: serving number 67, uh, you know,

and then you're serving number 65.

693

: 00:31:16

John: Well, thank you again, because

Brian and I were talking about this, uh,

694

: 00:31:19

a client we have yesterday and, and we

think there's a really good recommendation

695

: 00:31:24

to be made very much along these lines.

696

: 00:31:26

So we'll thank you.

697

: 00:31:27

Well, thank you again.

698

: 00:31:27

9.

699

: 00:31:28

Well spent.

700

: 00:31:29

Jay: Well, one thing I should note

on that, uh, people ask me this

701

: 00:31:31

a lot is, well, wait a second.

702

: 00:31:34

Like, what if then everybody

wants the fast pass?

703

: 00:31:36

And it's what I always say is

unless you're like an emergency

704

: 00:31:39

plumber and you know that people

are going to need critical care,

705

: 00:31:42

don't put it on the website, right?

706

: 00:31:44

This is not a thing that

you talk about publicly.

707

: 00:31:46

This is the thing you

talk about one on one.

708

: 00:31:48

Right.

709

: 00:31:48

This is the thing that you, this

is the thing that you offer on

710

: 00:31:50

the phone, not on the homepage.

711

: 00:31:52

Um, that's kind of an important

distinction in many businesses.

712

: 00:31:55

Brian: But, you know,

convenience is everything.

713

: 00:31:56

Like you said, the research even

shows that, you know, people

714

: 00:31:58

want to be able to skip the line.

715

: 00:31:59

And, um, so it's a, it's

716

: 00:32:01

Jay: Yeah.

717

: 00:32:01

Not everybody and not everybody

does, but that's okay.

718

: 00:32:05

Yeah.

719

: 00:32:05

Um, just, you know, if, if just a

handful do it's pure profit, cause

720

: 00:32:08

that's the thing we don't talk about.

721

: 00:32:09

Like if all you're doing is

changing the sequence, it

722

: 00:32:12

doesn't cost you anything more.

723

: 00:32:14

So it's literally pure profit.

724

: 00:32:16

Brian: well, I want to find that

emergency deli because definitely.

725

: 00:32:20

Jay: that too.

726

: 00:32:21

Roast beef now!

727

: 00:32:24

John: Yeah.

728

: 00:32:24

This, this, this harkens back to

our, uh, our Wendy's conversation

729

: 00:32:27

a little bit too, Brian.

730

: 00:32:29

Jay: Oh my, that thing was, they're

so, huge thing about Wendy's, and I

731

: 00:32:32

love the, I love the intro, uh, to

the show about it, because this whole

732

: 00:32:36

thing, I watched, it's like, it was like

watching a car crash in slow motion,

733

: 00:32:40

John: a predictable, uh, uh,

uh, an avoidable car crash.

734

: 00:32:43

Jay: Yeah, and Wendy's is, I

think, historically a pretty

735

: 00:32:46

nimble marketing organization.

736

: 00:32:47

Um, but this was a suicide,

not a murder, right?

737

: 00:32:50

They, they, and what happened, in my

estimation, is you had business school

738

: 00:32:56

people using business school messaging

about a consumer facing scenario.

739

: 00:33:03

And that's what killed them

because no, nobody going out for

740

: 00:33:07

a Dave's double or a baconator is,

is using dynamic pricing, right?

741

: 00:33:12

That's not all, all they're doing.

742

: 00:33:15

All they're doing is ladies night

743

: 00:33:17

Brian: Yeah.

744

: 00:33:18

Jay: on lady on ladies night.

745

: 00:33:19

Beers are two for one.

746

: 00:33:20

That's the same thing.

747

: 00:33:21

Like at two in the afternoon,

when it's slow between meals, you

748

: 00:33:24

can get 10 cents off a hamburger.

749

: 00:33:26

That's all they're doing.

750

: 00:33:27

This has been around since like, there

was a happy hour caveman special,

751

: 00:33:31

right in the, like the Neolithic era.

752

: 00:33:33

This is not new information at all.

753

: 00:33:36

It's just, they wrapped it up in all of

this like business school jargon, because

754

: 00:33:40

they were really talking to investors

and stock price, not to consumers.

755

: 00:33:43

So this was purely, uh, A

communications fail, and whoever is

756

: 00:33:47

their VP comms, that's the person who

should get the axe, not the actual

757

: 00:33:51

people who came up with the idea.

758

: 00:33:54

John: Well, we are, we are of

similar minds on that one for sure.

759

: 00:33:58

Hey, Jay, I want to switch a little bit to

that idea of outbound messaging, right?

760

: 00:34:03

Jay: Mm

761

: 00:34:04

John: On this podcast, we talk

about how brands and people

762

: 00:34:07

present themselves to the world.

763

: 00:34:08

And it does seem like it's kind of

rare, even for brands that are really

764

: 00:34:12

good at delivering a great experience,

customer experience, or a great service

765

: 00:34:15

to use that in their outbound messaging.

766

: 00:34:18

Um, I did just notice that discover card

is using Jennifer Coolidge, uh, to promote

767

: 00:34:23

24 seven access to us based service reps.

768

: 00:34:26

So, you know, the, the kind of

the knee jerk reaction to people

769

: 00:34:29

have to The world of chatbots.

770

: 00:34:32

I want to talk to somebody and I

want them to be someone I understand.

771

: 00:34:36

are there brands that you think have

done this really effectively, promoted

772

: 00:34:40

the idea of quality service or a great

experience for a sustained period of time?

773

: 00:34:44

Are there brands out

there who've done that?

774

: 00:34:45

Jay: Yes, but it's a great point

and a smart observation that a lot

775

: 00:34:50

of brands have a differentiated

experience but then don't use marketing

776

: 00:34:56

to proactively highlight it, right?

777

: 00:34:58

They, you experience the experience

and then they just sort of assume that

778

: 00:35:01

that kind of sinks in by osmosis and

then maybe you'll tell somebody about

779

: 00:35:06

it, hopefully, maybe, is not really a

strategy, that is a, that is a wish.

780

: 00:35:11

But there are some examples,

like one of the ones that I

781

: 00:35:13

talk about, is Krispy Kreme.

782

: 00:35:15

Krispy Kreme has the

hot, fresh light, right?

783

: 00:35:18

So when they're, when they're making

donuts, the light goes on, which is

784

: 00:35:22

Pavlovian in a lot of ways, right?

785

: 00:35:23

But if they're not making

donuts, the light is off, right?

786

: 00:35:25

So they're basically just telling

everybody who can see this

787

: 00:35:28

light, you know, that this is

the experience of the moment.

788

: 00:35:31

I think that's a really, really

smart way to go about it.

789

: 00:35:34

Um, in, in the Talk Triggers book, we.

790

: 00:35:36

one of the signature case studies

is, is Doubletree Hotels and their

791

: 00:35:39

famous chocolate chip cookie that

they, that they give to guests.

792

: 00:35:43

the, you know, they don't do TV

commercials like, Hey, we have cookies.

793

: 00:35:46

Cause that's weird.

794

: 00:35:47

It's not a bakery, but every Doubletree

hotel in the world that is close enough

795

: 00:35:51

to an airport to have an airport shuttle,

that airport shuttle is wrapped with

796

: 00:35:56

graphics of giant chocolate chip cookies.

797

: 00:35:58

Right there.

798

: 00:35:58

They're just kind of like reminding

you like oh, yeah, that's the hotel

799

: 00:36:03

that gives you the cookies, right?

800

: 00:36:04

They're not beating you

over the head with it.

801

: 00:36:06

And I think that's the way most brands

who do it Do it well is is that it's

802

: 00:36:12

not the star of the messaging, but

it's definitely a component and I

803

: 00:36:16

think The discover example is great.

804

: 00:36:18

You know, the whole spot is

not necessarily about, Hey, our

805

: 00:36:22

reps are in the U S but it's

definitely part of the story.

806

: 00:36:25

And I think that double or a discover

is one of the examples I use a lot

807

: 00:36:29

for a lot of different reasons.

808

: 00:36:30

I think they are excellent, excellent

marketers and always have been.

809

: 00:36:33

And of course now they're getting bought.

810

: 00:36:34

So we'll see how that

continues or doesn't.

811

: 00:36:37

John: yeah.

812

: 00:36:37

Brian and I talk probably a little

too much about the experience

813

: 00:36:40

that Chick fil A delivers.

814

: 00:36:42

Um, it's not something you ever

see in their marketing message.

815

: 00:36:44

They want to be known for great chicken.

816

: 00:36:46

Uh, man, you go in there and that

experience, once you, you know,

817

: 00:36:49

it keeps you coming back cause

you know, it's going to be, it's

818

: 00:36:52

going to be the same every time,

819

: 00:36:53

Jay: Yep.

820

: 00:36:53

Or, or pal sudden service, which is one

of the examples in the book, um, is it

821

: 00:36:57

a chain in Tennessee, 30 stores, fastest

fast food place in the country, right?

822

: 00:37:02

I mean, they're, they're seven times

faster than Taco Bell in terms of how

823

: 00:37:05

long it takes you to get your food

and drive through it's, it's called

824

: 00:37:07

the business is called sudden Service.

825

: 00:37:09

So they're kind of committing to

the bit there at that point, right?

826

: 00:37:12

If you're going to, if you, if

the business is going to be named

827

: 00:37:14

sudden service, it better be fast.

828

: 00:37:15

Uh, so sometimes you can, you can

bake it into, uh, You're positioning,

829

: 00:37:19

which I think, you know, there's

a reason why Jiffy lube is called

830

: 00:37:21

Jiffy lube, not lube, right?

831

: 00:37:23

They're, they're telling

you from the beginning

832

: 00:37:24

John: right?

833

: 00:37:25

A couple of reasons for

834

: 00:37:26

Jay: yeah, there's, yeah,

there's, there's some SEO reasons.

835

: 00:37:29

Um, there's some other reasons.

836

: 00:37:29

Yeah.

837

: 00:37:30

Uh, but, uh, but, they're telling

you what they are in the name of it,

838

: 00:37:34

which is always the best practice.

839

: 00:37:36

Brian: So let's talk a

little bit more about AI.

840

: 00:37:38

And I know you don't want to look

too far ahead, but , what do you

841

: 00:37:40

see from how AI is going to start

impacting that consumer experience?

842

: 00:37:44

Jay: Yeah, I mean, there's

so many different piece.

843

: 00:37:45

I'm actually working on

a speech about this now.

844

: 00:37:47

As we talked about earlier, first

of all, it's going to change

845

: 00:37:50

expectations around speed, right?

846

: 00:37:52

You've got companies like lemonade who can

process an insurance claim in 3 seconds.

847

: 00:37:56

If you're Allstate, you're

like, bro, what do we do now?

848

: 00:37:59

Right?

849

: 00:37:59

I mean, so, so they're just,

and there's going to be.

850

: 00:38:02

In almost every industry that isn't just

like hands on like come to my house and

851

: 00:38:05

fix my toilet There's going to be an AI

fueled startup that that literally does

852

: 00:38:12

whatever your business does 10x faster

than anybody else in the business does

853

: 00:38:16

it today And you're going to have to

figure out how to contend with that.

854

: 00:38:19

so that's going to be crazy.

855

: 00:38:20

The other thing, you know, we talk a lot

about generative AI and that's the one

856

: 00:38:23

that people understand the most, right?

857

: 00:38:24

Being able to, to, you know, make me

a cookie recipe or create an image

858

: 00:38:28

for me or make a movie or whatever.

859

: 00:38:29

And that's certainly going to have

huge impact on, on content marketing

860

: 00:38:32

and, you know, books and music and all

the things that are, built by humans.

861

: 00:38:37

But the reality is a lot of that

stuff is just, you Good enough.

862

: 00:38:41

I mean, they say that AI stands for

artificial intelligence, but I think

863

: 00:38:45

it stands for average information.

864

: 00:38:47

it, it, you know, there's not, I've

never seen anything by that, that I

865

: 00:38:50

saw either produced by AI or, or I

produced it using my own AI tools.

866

: 00:38:54

I'm like, that's amazing.

867

: 00:38:55

That is, that is the best

version of that I've ever seen.

868

: 00:38:58

Like that, you know, it's, it's remarkably

good, but it's by no means the best.

869

: 00:39:03

And, and, and what I tell marketers

in particular is like, look.

870

: 00:39:06

If, if the work that you turn out

isn't better than what AI can do,

871

: 00:39:10

that's your fault, not AI's fault.

872

: 00:39:12

Like, do better work.

873

: 00:39:14

Do more creative work.

874

: 00:39:15

and the creative part of it, I

think, is, is critical because in a

875

: 00:39:19

world where everybody has the same

robots, the strategist becomes king.

876

: 00:39:23

You've got to be able to,

to, to create marketing.

877

: 00:39:27

That is different enough or weird enough

that AI would never come up with it.

878

: 00:39:32

And to that end, one of my good

friends, Justin Keller, who's now at

879

: 00:39:35

Movable Inc, Justin, when he's adding

people to his marketing team now.

880

: 00:39:40

He's not looking for marketing

operations people or copywriters

881

: 00:39:44

or designers or photographers

or video editors or analysts.

882

: 00:39:48

He's looking for poets and sculptors

and people who have degrees in theater.

883

: 00:39:53

He's literally looking for people

who are raw creative because

884

: 00:39:57

they can come up with ideas.

885

: 00:39:58

That AI never will.

886

: 00:40:00

And the ability to then execute on those

ideas is totally commoditized now, right?

887

: 00:40:04

You can find somebody to execute.

888

: 00:40:05

You can find somebody to write

a landing page for a webinar.

889

: 00:40:07

You don't need to find somebody.

890

: 00:40:08

You just go to your AI tool and say,

write me a webinar landing page done,

891

: 00:40:13

but what's the webinar about, right?

892

: 00:40:15

And, and you've got to have some really

creative people on your teams in order to

893

: 00:40:18

do something that AI would never conjure.

894

: 00:40:20

And to me, that's one of the

success paths that people really

895

: 00:40:23

need to think about is, is.

896

: 00:40:25

True creativity will

become more important.

897

: 00:40:28

Faux creativity will become

dramatically unimportant.

898

: 00:40:31

Of course.

899

: 00:40:33

John: like that kind of faux creativity.

900

: 00:40:35

We had a conversation recently with

Margaret Johnson, the Chief Creative

901

: 00:40:39

Officer at Goody Silverstein and Partners,

and she talked about how all of the art

902

: 00:40:42

directors in their building are being

actively trained on mid journey and

903

: 00:40:47

other visual, uh, AI generation tools.

904

: 00:40:51

And to your point, like, that's what can

win when all the everyone's got those

905

: 00:40:56

robots, but you've got great creative

people who know how to use them and

906

: 00:41:00

originate something, a starting point.

907

: 00:41:03

that makes the AI better and then can

massage an output to be something special.

908

: 00:41:08

You know, that's where the magic is.

909

: 00:41:09

Jay: Absolutely.

910

: 00:41:10

I mean, I, when I first started,

when I was an intern, uh, in

911

: 00:41:13

college, I interned at an ad agency.

912

: 00:41:15

And, and when I was there that

summer is the first time the

913

: 00:41:19

creative departments got computers.

914

: 00:41:21

And it's the same kind of revolution.

915

: 00:41:23

It's like, Oh my God, now we have

to like, we have to, and we can

916

: 00:41:27

make something better, faster,

cheaper, easier, more affordable.

917

: 00:41:30

You know, is everybody else

going to do it this way?

918

: 00:41:32

Like, what about, we have a photographer

on staff, like, what are they going to do?

919

: 00:41:34

Like, all of that disruption, is,

is scary, but it's also a huge

920

: 00:41:39

opportunity if you can get it right.

921

: 00:41:40

Brian: this podcast is all about some

of those decision points in your career.

922

: 00:41:43

And you've certainly had a winding way

to get to where you are in a good way.

923

: 00:41:48

but, you know, you started as a

political strategist, is that correct?

924

: 00:41:52

Yeah,

925

: 00:41:52

Jay: I started as a direct mail

specialist for Senator John McCain.

926

: 00:41:56

Brian: That's awesome.

927

: 00:41:57

John: that?

928

: 00:41:57

Brian: did you have like a moment

of like, this is not for me?

929

: 00:42:00

Or did you kind of just see

there was opportunity to do what

930

: 00:42:03

you're doing in other industries?

931

: 00:42:04

Like, how did you

932

: 00:42:06

Jay: Yeah, so I was a political science

major and I, and I, my first part

933

: 00:42:09

of my career was managing campaigns,

but man, it's a tough business.

934

: 00:42:12

And I got out of it mostly because

in those days, You weren't constantly

935

: 00:42:16

campaigning the way you are today.

936

: 00:42:18

In those days, you would go into an

election cycle and then you would have

937

: 00:42:21

a period of time in between cycles.

938

: 00:42:24

So right about then is, is

when the very, very, very, very

939

: 00:42:28

beginning of digital occurred.

940

: 00:42:30

And my friends from college had

started the first internet company

941

: 00:42:33

in Arizona where I used to live.

942

: 00:42:35

And we had beers one night

and they're like, man, we're

943

: 00:42:37

starting to grow this company.

944

: 00:42:38

We don't know anything about

marketing and communications.

945

: 00:42:41

I'm like, well, that's okay.

946

: 00:42:42

Because when you say the word internet, I

don't actually know what that word means.

947

: 00:42:44

and I didn't, but I said, I

don't want to do this anymore.

948

: 00:42:47

So I'm going to come go work for you guys.

949

: 00:42:48

And so I ended up being the vice

president of sales and marketing of

950

: 00:42:51

an internet company, having never

been on the internet, which makes

951

: 00:42:54

for an interesting first day of work.

952

: 00:42:56

Uh, and you may have heard me say

this on stage, but it was so long

953

: 00:42:59

ago, that domain names were free.

954

: 00:43:01

John: Oh yeah.

955

: 00:43:02

Jay: can get domain names.

956

: 00:43:03

You just get what you just

get them because why would

957

: 00:43:06

like, there's no websites.

958

: 00:43:07

Like, why would you have a website?

959

: 00:43:08

What would you do with a website?

960

: 00:43:10

So you just get whatever

domain you wanted.

961

: 00:43:11

And, and, uh, my partners and I,

in that company, we sold budweiser.

962

: 00:43:15

com to Anheuser Busch in 1993.

963

: 00:43:18

So 30, almost 31 years

ago for 50 cases of beer.

964

: 00:43:22

John: Oh man.

965

: 00:43:24

Jay: That's how long ago it was.

966

: 00:43:25

John: Well, it makes you feel

any better in today's dollars.

967

: 00:43:28

That would be like 250 cases of

968

: 00:43:30

Jay: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

969

: 00:43:33

that's, I love digital because you

have the same kind of finality.

970

: 00:43:36

Even, even versus outdoor or radio

or TV or newspaper or magazine or

971

: 00:43:42

even direct mail, which I started

in, you know, in digital, you're

972

: 00:43:45

like, okay, how many people clicked?

973

: 00:43:47

How many people opened?

974

: 00:43:48

How many people converted?

975

: 00:43:49

Right?

976

: 00:43:50

That, that level of

like, Math and analytics.

977

: 00:43:52

I really, I really enjoyed.

978

: 00:43:54

So, uh, I've only done two

smart things in my career.

979

: 00:43:56

Really one, uh, convinced my wife to marry

me, which was still my greatest triumph.

980

: 00:44:01

And the thing I worked out the hardest,

frankly, um, and to, uh, got the good

981

: 00:44:06

sense to get involved in the internet,

like essentially from the first day and,

982

: 00:44:10

and mostly stay involved since then.

983

: 00:44:12

John: Well, there were the early

days of the internet, direct mail.

984

: 00:44:17

response marketers like they were a

natural fit for what was happening there.

985

: 00:44:21

So yeah, a lot of people

986

: 00:44:22

Jay: It made perfect sense to me.

987

: 00:44:23

Absolutely.

988

: 00:44:24

John: then the most recent pivot, you

know, now you, you know, you mentioned

989

: 00:44:27

you sold your consulting practice.

990

: 00:44:29

Um, and I guess that was to become

what you are now, which is the biggest

991

: 00:44:33

tequila influencer in the country.

992

: 00:44:35

Yeah.

993

: 00:44:36

Jay: No, that was not, that was not it.

994

: 00:44:38

That was

995

: 00:44:38

John: It, you know, it wasn't that,

996

: 00:44:40

Jay: No, it wasn't that I,

997

: 00:44:41

Brian: Sounds like the world's

greatest midlife crisis.

998

: 00:44:44

Jay: happy accident.

999

: 00:44:45

No, I,

: 1000

00:44:45,949 --> 00:44:47,509

John: more of an

evolution than a hard cut.

: 1001

00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:48,447

Not

: 1002

00:44:48,679 --> 00:44:52,679

Jay: know, for, for, for 10 years, I

was running a global strategy firm with

: 1003

00:44:52,679 --> 00:44:54,429

really big clients doing great work.

: 1004

00:44:54,609 --> 00:44:57,899

And I was also traveling 48 weeks

a year as a professional speaker.

: 1005

00:44:58,769 --> 00:45:00,059

And, and I've spent.

: 1006

00:45:00,168 --> 00:45:05,144

Every minute of every flight doing work

and every weekend, and I loved it, I

: 1007

00:45:05,144 --> 00:45:09,181

thought, and then when the pandemic

happened and I had to stop traveling, I

: 1008

00:45:09,181 --> 00:45:13,321

realized that I'd actually been manifestly

unhappy for a long time, but I just

: 1009

00:45:13,321 --> 00:45:14,851

didn't know because I'd never stopped.

: 1010

00:45:14,861 --> 00:45:16,231

I've never stopped.

: 1011

00:45:16,291 --> 00:45:20,361

and, and then when I was forced

to stop, I was like, I I, I can't

: 1012

00:45:20,361 --> 00:45:21,601

keep doing both of these things.

: 1013

00:45:21,731 --> 00:45:23,191

Um, it's just too much.

: 1014

00:45:23,354 --> 00:45:27,988

And I sold Convince and Convert, uh, to

a good friend cause who I knew would,

: 1015

00:45:28,008 --> 00:45:29,268

would be a great steward of the business.

: 1016

00:45:29,278 --> 00:45:33,024

And they have been, and, and said, okay,

I'm going to keep doing the speaking side.

: 1017

00:45:33,024 --> 00:45:35,754

Cause it's, you know, nobody

ever gives standing ovations in a

: 1018

00:45:35,754 --> 00:45:37,114

conference room to a strategic plan.

: 1019

00:45:37,454 --> 00:45:40,194

It's more psychologically satisfying to

be a speaker than to be a strategist.

: 1020

00:45:40,194 --> 00:45:40,534

Yeah.

: 1021

00:45:40,659 --> 00:45:42,219

Uh, and it was, man, that strategy.

: 1022

00:45:42,219 --> 00:45:42,289

Woo.

: 1023

00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:45,779

You know, you're not signing autographs,

you know, it doesn't really work

: 1024

00:45:45,869 --> 00:45:47,129

John: once, not even once.

: 1025

00:45:47,149 --> 00:45:47,509

Jay: never.

: 1026

00:45:48,089 --> 00:45:51,369

Uh, so I kept the speaking business,

sold the consulting business.

: 1027

00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,059

And, and I hosted a podcast every

week for 10 years called social

: 1028

00:45:55,059 --> 00:45:56,849

pros did 500 and something episodes.

: 1029

00:45:56,959 --> 00:46:00,254

And after I'd sold the

business, uh, for a.

: 1030

00:46:00,574 --> 00:46:02,024

I've been out for almost a year.

: 1031

00:46:02,114 --> 00:46:03,054

I was like, you know what I should do?

: 1032

00:46:03,084 --> 00:46:06,954

I should take some of the time that I used

to allocate every week to the podcast,

: 1033

00:46:07,158 --> 00:46:10,098

and maybe I should just try to teach

people some of the things I've learned

: 1034

00:46:10,098 --> 00:46:12,078

about tequila in the last 25 years.

: 1035

00:46:12,788 --> 00:46:15,388

So, uh, not even two years

ago was when we started.

: 1036

00:46:15,418 --> 00:46:16,578

I just made a video.

: 1037

00:46:16,618 --> 00:46:17,088

It was terrible.

: 1038

00:46:17,088 --> 00:46:18,578

Made another video, also terrible.

: 1039

00:46:18,998 --> 00:46:22,518

Made a couple more videos, slightly less

terrible, um, on Instagram and TikTok.

: 1040

00:46:23,528 --> 00:46:27,238

And then it kind of caught fire and

now it's like a whole business and I'm

: 1041

00:46:27,238 --> 00:46:31,238

the second most popular non celebrity

tequila influencer on the planet.

: 1042

00:46:31,238 --> 00:46:33,288

I have quarter million

followers or something across

: 1043

00:46:33,288 --> 00:46:35,468

channels, 25 videos a month.

: 1044

00:46:35,468 --> 00:46:39,328

We have a bunch of sponsors and

partnerships and I'm in Mexico

: 1045

00:46:39,328 --> 00:46:41,378

all the time now, uh, doing work.

: 1046

00:46:41,378 --> 00:46:44,618

So it's, uh, it's, it's

been a, been a crazy ride.

: 1047

00:46:44,678 --> 00:46:46,198

Uh, we really, really enjoy it.

: 1048

00:46:46,198 --> 00:46:48,668

It's a fun, it's a fun business

to be in, to be in, obviously.

: 1049

00:46:48,873 --> 00:46:51,133

And the UPS guy is like,

dude, what is your problem?

: 1050

00:46:51,353 --> 00:46:54,183

Because I get, I get like

eight or 10 bottles a week

: 1051

00:46:54,183 --> 00:46:55,303

sent to the house for review.

: 1052

00:46:55,333 --> 00:46:58,293

Cause we do so many tequila reviews

and he's just like, I don't know.

: 1053

00:46:58,333 --> 00:47:01,263

I mean like you gotta, you know, and

I keep having to buy more shelves

: 1054

00:47:01,663 --> 00:47:03,133

and my wife's like, no more shelves.

: 1055

00:47:03,143 --> 00:47:03,983

It's like a whole thing.

: 1056

00:47:04,023 --> 00:47:08,459

So yeah, it's Tequila

Jay Baer on Instagram.

: 1057

00:47:08,489 --> 00:47:09,319

Look it up folks.

: 1058

00:47:09,389 --> 00:47:10,129

Tequila Jay Baer.

: 1059

00:47:10,740 --> 00:47:12,010

Brian: Yeah, it's a great follow.

: 1060

00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,990

Um, I asked you, you had a recent

video of you going through, uh,

: 1061

00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:21,599

the liquor store in Vegas, which

is like the collision of, of, yeah,

: 1062

00:47:21,679 --> 00:47:22,019

Jay: worlds.

: 1063

00:47:22,019 --> 00:47:22,289

Yeah.

: 1064

00:47:22,829 --> 00:47:23,239

Yeah.

: 1065

00:47:23,529 --> 00:47:23,739

Yeah.

: 1066

00:47:23,739 --> 00:47:25,409

That's actually one of the things

I'm glad you mentioned that.

: 1067

00:47:25,409 --> 00:47:26,159

Thanks for pointing it out.

: 1068

00:47:26,189 --> 00:47:29,219

It's one of the things I'm doing now is

there's other people who make tequila

: 1069

00:47:29,219 --> 00:47:33,879

content for like four other, uh,

accounts that, that are, um, they have

: 1070

00:47:33,879 --> 00:47:37,419

a pretty good audience and, and I'm

like, well, what's our differentiator.

: 1071

00:47:37,953 --> 00:47:39,693

Number one, my co host Maddie is amazing.

: 1072

00:47:39,773 --> 00:47:41,323

we're the only one who kind of are a duo.

: 1073

00:47:41,469 --> 00:47:44,519

But number two, since I do travel every

week still, I'm like, well, I'm going

: 1074

00:47:44,519 --> 00:47:48,069

to go to the, the top liquor store in

every city where I'm doing a keynote.

: 1075

00:47:48,109 --> 00:47:50,489

I'm just going to say, well, here's

the tequila I'd buy at that store.

: 1076

00:47:50,739 --> 00:47:52,579

And so we're starting

to do that, that thesis.

: 1077

00:47:52,579 --> 00:47:53,459

You saw the Vegas one.

: 1078

00:47:53,859 --> 00:47:55,319

Uh, we did a Nashville one last week.

: 1079

00:47:55,329 --> 00:47:56,989

This week we're doing one in Phoenix.

: 1080

00:47:56,989 --> 00:47:59,219

Next week, um, New Orleans.

: 1081

00:47:59,219 --> 00:48:01,739

So every week it's like a

new liquor store adventure.

: 1082

00:48:01,739 --> 00:48:03,109

So people seem to like that content.

: 1083

00:48:03,199 --> 00:48:03,699

It's kind of fun.

: 1084

00:48:04,013 --> 00:48:04,643

Brian: yeah, it's great.

: 1085

00:48:04,773 --> 00:48:04,953

Yeah.

: 1086

00:48:04,953 --> 00:48:06,243

Let us know when you come to Philadelphia.

: 1087

00:48:06,583 --> 00:48:06,873

Jay: I will,

: 1088

00:48:07,123 --> 00:48:07,833

John: For sure.

: 1089

00:48:07,933 --> 00:48:08,513

Teach us.

: 1090

00:48:08,513 --> 00:48:08,793

Jay: will.

: 1091

00:48:08,933 --> 00:48:11,293

Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania

being a control state is a bit

: 1092

00:48:11,293 --> 00:48:13,203

of a, bit of a tequila desert.

: 1093

00:48:13,213 --> 00:48:13,973

It gets a little harder.

: 1094

00:48:14,113 --> 00:48:15,583

Uh, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan.

: 1095

00:48:15,593 --> 00:48:18,863

There's a few states that's like,

Ooh, this is going to be a tough list.

: 1096

00:48:19,053 --> 00:48:21,663

John: Well, Philly is a

short drive to New Jersey and

: 1097

00:48:22,083 --> 00:48:22,733

Jay: Exactly.

: 1098

00:48:22,833 --> 00:48:23,093

Exactly.

: 1099

00:48:23,183 --> 00:48:23,853

John: have options.

: 1100

00:48:23,903 --> 00:48:24,063

Yeah.

: 1101

00:48:24,063 --> 00:48:24,333

We do

: 1102

00:48:24,463 --> 00:48:25,223

Jay: Absolutely.

: 1103

00:48:25,983 --> 00:48:28,543

Brian: One of the, the messages

I've always gotten from you over

: 1104

00:48:28,543 --> 00:48:31,663

the years , and it's been helpful

advice for, for everybody that I've

: 1105

00:48:31,663 --> 00:48:36,023

worked with is just, you know, these

things like technology and digital,

: 1106

00:48:36,043 --> 00:48:39,203

they're, they're just the enabler,

you know, it's not your golden ticket.

: 1107

00:48:39,305 --> 00:48:44,085

Especially if you can't, , hold up your

end of the bar, um, and so, um, you

: 1108

00:48:44,085 --> 00:48:47,985

know, with everything you've seen in

your career over, many decades, , do you

: 1109

00:48:47,985 --> 00:48:51,195

feel like the principles of marketing

and pretty much stayed the same or, you

: 1110

00:48:51,195 --> 00:48:54,415

know, do we just live in a completely

different universe from when you started?

: 1111

00:48:54,415 --> 00:48:55,995

Jay: I think their principles

have always been the same.

: 1112

00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:58,750

And always will be.

: 1113

00:48:58,860 --> 00:49:03,490

It's just how you articulate and

execute against those principles

: 1114

00:49:03,500 --> 00:49:05,950

have changed a tremendous amount

and will continue to change.

: 1115

00:49:05,950 --> 00:49:09,550

And now with AI, we'll change even,

even more than we've expected and

: 1116

00:49:09,550 --> 00:49:15,210

experienced in the, in the recent past

with the ideas of, okay, how do we.

: 1117

00:49:15,900 --> 00:49:19,650

How do we make somebody know what we do?

: 1118

00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,460

How do we make them need what we sell?

: 1119

00:49:22,493 --> 00:49:25,523

And then how do we make them

tell other people about it?

: 1120

00:49:25,763 --> 00:49:26,033

Right?

: 1121

00:49:26,033 --> 00:49:32,186

Whether you're executing that on, a, a

flyer posted to a wall or an AI driven

: 1122

00:49:32,216 --> 00:49:36,986

chat bot, the core thesis around what

marketing is about, is the same and

: 1123

00:49:36,986 --> 00:49:38,336

we'll, and we'll always be the same.

: 1124

00:49:38,513 --> 00:49:43,750

What we forget though, is, is that

the tools change probably more and

: 1125

00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:45,920

faster in marketing than almost

any other discipline other than

: 1126

00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:47,210

maybe like medicine or something.

: 1127

00:49:47,210 --> 00:49:47,380

Right?

: 1128

00:49:47,390 --> 00:49:50,826

Like, even the stuff that, that my team

and I were doing five years ago, you

: 1129

00:49:50,826 --> 00:49:54,341

wouldn't, you know, You wouldn't do

now much less 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

: 1130

00:49:54,341 --> 00:49:57,591

So, it's, it's good job security

for, uh, for folks like you, right?

: 1131

00:49:57,591 --> 00:50:00,071

Like keep, keep telling them

what, what today's truth is.

: 1132

00:50:00,431 --> 00:50:02,648

Cause yesterday's truth

may no longer be true.

: 1133

00:50:02,896 --> 00:50:03,566

John: Jay, thank you.

: 1134

00:50:03,650 --> 00:50:06,960

Your background, , your

storytelling, your experiences,

: 1135

00:50:06,980 --> 00:50:08,690

all really, really interesting.

: 1136

00:50:08,690 --> 00:50:11,020

And, uh, we're very

grateful that you joined us.

: 1137

00:50:11,545 --> 00:50:11,985

Jay: My pleasure.

: 1138

00:50:11,985 --> 00:50:12,955

It's great to be with you.

: 1139

00:50:13,005 --> 00:50:13,775

I love the show.

: 1140

00:50:13,805 --> 00:50:15,035

Amazing questions as well.

: 1141

00:50:15,035 --> 00:50:16,045

I really enjoyed the conversation.

: 1142

00:50:16,045 --> 00:50:16,785

I'll come back sometime.

: 1143

00:50:16,785 --> 00:50:18,445

We'll just, we'll do a

whole show on tequila.

: 1144

00:50:18,445 --> 00:50:20,695

You let me know when you're

ready and tequila, actually the

: 1145

00:50:20,695 --> 00:50:24,845

field of tequila marketing is a

very interesting, uh, business.

: 1146

00:50:25,105 --> 00:50:27,325

There's a, there's some, there's

some opportunities there.

: 1147

00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:27,810

Brian: Love it.

: 1148

00:50:28,020 --> 00:50:28,400

Love it.

: 1149

00:50:28,690 --> 00:50:30,670

John: That was, it sounds like

maybe a follow up podcast,

: 1150

00:50:30,815 --> 00:50:31,435

Jay: You let me know

: 1151

00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,450

John: a live edition from

: 1152

00:50:33,475 --> 00:50:34,325

Jay: can do, can do.

: 1153

00:50:34,325 --> 00:50:34,445

We

: 1154

00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:37,180

John: one of the road trips we

always plan from, from every

: 1155

00:50:37,180 --> 00:50:38,630

time we talk, talk to a guest.

: 1156

00:50:38,995 --> 00:50:39,475

Jay: I love it.

: 1157

00:50:39,475 --> 00:50:39,865

Let me know.

: 1158

00:50:39,865 --> 00:50:40,335

We'll do it.

: 1159

00:50:40,455 --> 00:50:41,235

I appreciate it

: 1160

00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:42,030

Brian: All right, Jay.

: 1161

00:50:42,030 --> 00:50:43,050

We really appreciate your time.

: 1162

00:50:43,243 --> 00:50:43,693

Jay: Thanks.

: 1163

00:50:46,224 --> 00:50:47,931

John: Wow, Brian, thank you.

: 1164

00:50:48,071 --> 00:50:49,221

It was an amazing guest.

: 1165

00:50:49,248 --> 00:50:54,248

hats off to you for pulling in an a

list speaker like that to join us.

: 1166

00:50:54,438 --> 00:50:54,968

What a treat.

: 1167

00:50:55,358 --> 00:50:58,292

Brian: It was, it was awesome to be

able to talk to him and go through

: 1168

00:50:58,302 --> 00:51:01,671

a lot of the things that we usually

talk about anyway, but, , his point of

: 1169

00:51:01,671 --> 00:51:04,991

view and he's just connected with so

many people and heard so many stories.

: 1170

00:51:05,011 --> 00:51:06,591

And it's great to get

some of that knowledge.

: 1171

00:51:06,831 --> 00:51:08,171

John: Next time, tequila.

: 1172

00:51:10,691 --> 00:51:11,881

Brian: or right now, tequila.

: 1173

00:51:11,931 --> 00:51:12,321

Yes,

: 1174

00:51:12,671 --> 00:51:14,321

John: I know nothing about tequila.

: 1175

00:51:14,775 --> 00:51:15,765

Brian: time to time to learn.

: 1176

00:51:15,765 --> 00:51:17,125

Never too, never too late to start.

: 1177

00:51:17,375 --> 00:51:17,975

John: Never too late.

: 1178

00:51:18,195 --> 00:51:23,085

Brian, before we transition to

our dear, hopelessly unattainable

: 1179

00:51:23,095 --> 00:51:26,952

guest segment, feel like we should

address something we've been, we've

: 1180

00:51:26,952 --> 00:51:28,222

been skipping on this podcast.

: 1181

00:51:28,462 --> 00:51:29,782

Relentless self promotion.

: 1182

00:51:29,942 --> 00:51:30,462

Brian: Oh, God.

: 1183

00:51:30,737 --> 00:51:35,077

John: Yeah, so, uh, I would ask

anybody who's listening, if you've

: 1184

00:51:35,077 --> 00:51:39,302

enjoyed this even a little bit,

please, share, post it to your socials,

: 1185

00:51:39,552 --> 00:51:43,852

whatever it takes, just listen,

subscribe, share, we appreciate it,

: 1186

00:51:44,031 --> 00:51:44,501

Brian: Oh, friend.

: 1187

00:51:44,662 --> 00:51:45,152

John: tell a friend.

: 1188

00:51:45,460 --> 00:51:49,552

Alright, so now I will give you my

dear, hopelessly unattainable guest.

: 1189

00:51:49,798 --> 00:51:51,488

Here we go, I think you're gonna like it.

: 1190

00:51:52,468 --> 00:51:56,338

Dear Elon Musk, please join us

on the Snap Decisions podcast.

: 1191

00:51:56,498 --> 00:51:59,118

We're doing it strictly for

the attention, which I believe

: 1192

00:51:59,188 --> 00:52:01,168

you'll relate to and appreciate.

: 1193

00:52:01,458 --> 00:52:02,928

Sincerely, John O'Brien.

: 1194

00:52:03,263 --> 00:52:04,543

Brian: and that's it.

: 1195

00:52:04,688 --> 00:52:05,358

John: That's it.

: 1196

00:52:06,588 --> 00:52:11,328

I mean, I, I, I'm not gonna, you know,

appeal to ego and accomplishment and

: 1197

00:52:11,418 --> 00:52:13,048

all the stuff that you would expect.

: 1198

00:52:13,128 --> 00:52:17,438

Just, I'm not saying he's an attention

whore, but he will certainly understand

: 1199

00:52:17,438 --> 00:52:18,928

people who are just looking for attention.

: 1200

00:52:19,078 --> 00:52:20,968

And in our case, that's us.

: 1201

00:52:21,643 --> 00:52:22,583

Brian: I respect that.

: 1202

00:52:22,780 --> 00:52:24,590

sounds like a tweet you can fit it.

: 1203

00:52:25,345 --> 00:52:26,795

John: And it'll fit on X.

: 1204

00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:27,590

Brian: Yes.

: 1205

00:52:27,812 --> 00:52:28,282

Okay.

: 1206

00:52:28,412 --> 00:52:29,152

Good stuff.

: 1207

00:52:29,712 --> 00:52:30,532

Let's reel them in.

: 1208

00:52:30,922 --> 00:52:31,872

John: One at a time.

: 1209

00:52:32,152 --> 00:52:33,042

Start booking them.

: 1210

00:52:33,393 --> 00:52:33,793

All right, man.

: 1211

00:52:33,793 --> 00:52:34,893

Well, thanks for a good episode.

: 1212

00:52:35,146 --> 00:52:35,506

Brian: Yeah.

: 1213

00:52:36,115 --> 00:52:36,995

Yeah, absolutely.

: 1214

00:52:37,245 --> 00:52:37,825

Good talking.

: 1215

00:52:38,056 --> 00:52:39,096

John: until next time.